Knicks · Fire Thibs (page 55)
EwingsGlass wrote:I don’t want to fire Thibs. The nature of this discussion is awkward because despite my desire not to fire Thibs, the points being made seem “wrong” in my opinion.Dude he's PHil Jackson part 2. Spo looks great with Lebron. So does your aunt Judy. Spo hasnt done shit since. There's 2 runs with Jimmy Butler playing out of his mind. Lots of first round exits.1) Coaches can get fired despite good win-loss. 50 win season is not a winning coach - need a chip to be a winning coach. Good record doesn’t equal good coach in my opinion. Semantics? I don’t think so. If you look at a coach and don’t believe they can win a chip, you should fire them unless you don’t mind not winning a chip (eg tanking). I think Thibs can win a chip but I sometimes wonder whether he is a good coach or a good taskmaster. I think he can win a chip with this team.
2) Taskmaster deserves a little embellishment. Thibs plays his players hard. He gets a lot out of players he trusts. He favors vets and gives them a long leash. He rides rookies and keeps them on a short leash. He is the kind of coach that will try to win every game. I believe the number of games he wins each season is the maximum amount he is capable of winning but might overstate how far they can go in the playoffs. He punted zero games strategically. He gave zero games away coddling his starters. Maximum effort to win. Not saying it’s wrong, but the playoff seeding may not reflect the team’s ability.
3) Prepared but not Strategic? I can’t tell whether he is a strategic coach. His team is well prepared for games. They rarely adjust. KP is 7/12 from 3 and still no one shadowing him. I see game plans and preparedness but not really adjustment. Someone cold might get the collar eventually, but more often they play through it. Trusts his vet players and doesn’t appear to overreact, but might under-react in some instances.
I’m not grabbing Mike Malone over Thibs. I would for Spo. If I look at Spo, I think you see a strategic coach that is well prepared. Similar win-loss records. Huge disparity in chips. Spo will absolutely play to make the play-in and not to win games. You will see him giveaway games, sit players, and take the loss. In the playoffs, he will run the team as far as it can go and will out-coach his peers - changing strategies quickly. He will get better draft picks from the lower seeding but will lose home court advantage. But Miami is an out of towner city anyway. I think Spo is the better coach. I think he has a more strategic vision.
As for his great adjustments did you even watch the last two tourney games? 2 years ago we come from down 20 (hows that for an adjustment?) and last year what we did in the 2nd half to them was criminal. I dont want to be anything like Miami. They got lucky w/ Lebron.
If Jokic forces his way here and we win some chips it makes Thibs one of the best ever right? 
There will surely be a time we move on from him, but it's not anytime soon
fishmike wrote:EwingsGlass wrote:I don’t want to fire Thibs. The nature of this discussion is awkward because despite my desire not to fire Thibs, the points being made seem “wrong” in my opinion.Dude he's PHil Jackson part 2. Spo looks great with Lebron. So does your aunt Judy. Spo hasnt done shit since. There's 2 runs with Jimmy Butler playing out of his mind. Lots of first round exits.1) Coaches can get fired despite good win-loss. 50 win season is not a winning coach - need a chip to be a winning coach. Good record doesn’t equal good coach in my opinion. Semantics? I don’t think so. If you look at a coach and don’t believe they can win a chip, you should fire them unless you don’t mind not winning a chip (eg tanking). I think Thibs can win a chip but I sometimes wonder whether he is a good coach or a good taskmaster. I think he can win a chip with this team.
2) Taskmaster deserves a little embellishment. Thibs plays his players hard. He gets a lot out of players he trusts. He favors vets and gives them a long leash. He rides rookies and keeps them on a short leash. He is the kind of coach that will try to win every game. I believe the number of games he wins each season is the maximum amount he is capable of winning but might overstate how far they can go in the playoffs. He punted zero games strategically. He gave zero games away coddling his starters. Maximum effort to win. Not saying it’s wrong, but the playoff seeding may not reflect the team’s ability.
3) Prepared but not Strategic? I can’t tell whether he is a strategic coach. His team is well prepared for games. They rarely adjust. KP is 7/12 from 3 and still no one shadowing him. I see game plans and preparedness but not really adjustment. Someone cold might get the collar eventually, but more often they play through it. Trusts his vet players and doesn’t appear to overreact, but might under-react in some instances.
I’m not grabbing Mike Malone over Thibs. I would for Spo. If I look at Spo, I think you see a strategic coach that is well prepared. Similar win-loss records. Huge disparity in chips. Spo will absolutely play to make the play-in and not to win games. You will see him giveaway games, sit players, and take the loss. In the playoffs, he will run the team as far as it can go and will out-coach his peers - changing strategies quickly. He will get better draft picks from the lower seeding but will lose home court advantage. But Miami is an out of towner city anyway. I think Spo is the better coach. I think he has a more strategic vision.
As for his great adjustments did you even watch the last two tourney games? 2 years ago we come from down 20 (hows that for an adjustment?) and last year what we did in the 2nd half to them was criminal. I dont want to be anything like Miami. They got lucky w/ Lebron.
If Jokic forces his way here and we win some chips it makes Thibs one of the best ever right?
There will surely be a time we move on from him, but it's not anytime soon
Was your Phil Jackson quip intended to be an insult? Dude is a top 5 coach all time regardless of personnel. Regardless, I don't think you are valuing Spo correctly. I actually think that Spo does a lot with very little. Two finals appearances in the last 5 years isn't nothing. That's 2 more than Thibs. Always seems to have a UDFA that turns into a stud. You want to tell me that Mazzulla is benefiting from a team that was already constructed and he only had to press the go button? I'll listen to that argument. But you belittle a guy for only making the finals twice in 5 years in favor of a guy that hasn't? I'd take Spo. I would. You don't have to in my hypothetical, but lets not act like the guy can't coach.
Should he be held to offer a contrition prayer to the satisfaction of the starphuched?
Better yet, How about this, Knicks bow to the pistons in a first round upset. Thibs, a devout Hindu performs to the satisfaction of knick fan Gustav the act self-immolation of setting the body on fire. YOu want to fire Thibs? Here you go!
BTW, Rosters do matter. Injuries matter. Winning regular season does not make for a championship lock. Its part of the context of things.
Thibs in Chicago. Masterful job until the minutes police did not have body cam's to monitor and 22 year MVP Rose broke. MVP play big minutes. Look it up. Otherwise he had really good teams but not championship rosters. Was Joakim Noah really that good or did Thibs extract the most from him? Jimmy was not Jimmy out of college. JImmy needed some time and was developed.
THibs in Minny? Coached less than 3 years there. Year one to the following year he improved 16 games. 31 to 47 wins! The last of the Coach/Presidents in the NBA. A by gone era. He worked for Glen Taylor. Seek that for context. A shitty owner. Had some immature players he rode to hard and then there was Jimmy who despite his talent is a massive egomaniac. Got him to Minny and the dude flat out lost it. Jimmy had some valid frustrations with KAT and others but to the extent of fucking over Thibs. He then did it to PHilly, then to Miami. We blast Lebron for his indiscretions and perceive Durant as evil but not Jimmy?
Did Thibs miss manage the situation? Yep. Might Have cost him his job. (I think that means he answered for it?} Did it cost them a championship? No, they never exhibited that level of competency to warrant that expectation.
"Thibs needs to answer for it"? Be humiliated at a PuffDaddy party?
In this age of knick stability/culture still being cultivated to suggest Thibs has taken this team as far as it can go is one fan frustration but not a collective one. We are still building this thing and succeeding. Even a post season failure in the first round after back to back seasons is not grounds YET. Why? Because this team has yet to demonstrate it can dominate consistently. We are not beating elite teams. If we did and then failed, well that might have some credence. But we have not graduated to that level year one with KAT/Bridges/OG (full season). In fact. Jalen is still figuring his role out with those three. The starting talent is substantial on paper. Chemistry takes time. The culture is in place. The players are in place. The bench is coming together.
Stability matters. No worries. Fans can be unstable. The FO is not.