Knicks · [Game Thread 12/27/22] Knicks at Mavs 8:30PM (page 8)
Not even sweating a loss and collapse at end of fourth.
I don’t know how anyone can complain that the young guys got too many minutes, that’s just a level of ridiculousness that I can’t even comprehend.
These young guys are just soaking up the experience.
IQ and McBride just gotta makes some shots and that’ll come eventually.
Take it in, it’s called development. Been happening for a while now.
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We always breaking negative records.
Sambakick wrote:joec32033 wrote:Sambakick wrote:joec32033 wrote:
I may be old school but, free throws or no free throws, not giving up 9 points on the final minute would fall directly on the players shitting the bed on defense.
1. Thibs not calling timeout when Grimes was doubled at the baseline.
2. Thibs not putting Sims in for Grimes when all we needed was a rebound.That's two blown decisions before you get to his rotations and not having a veteran like DRose out there.
The substitution rests directly on Thibs. Grimes can call a timeout in that situation too. I would think that is on them both.
Can Grimes substitute himself out for Sims? Ultimately its Thibs decision to trust Grimes.
I was referring to the two different situations you reference.
The substitution is all Thibs.
When Grimes is doubled on the line he can call time out too, and it would probably come faster than of Thibs called it. I think they both share the blame on that one. The more I see Grimes in certain situations, while a real good defender and decent scorer, he is making some very bad decisions/having real bad mental lapses when he is facing pressure situations.
joec32033 wrote:Sambakick wrote:joec32033 wrote:Sambakick wrote:joec32033 wrote:
I may be old school but, free throws or no free throws, not giving up 9 points on the final minute would fall directly on the players shitting the bed on defense.
1. Thibs not calling timeout when Grimes was doubled at the baseline.
2. Thibs not putting Sims in for Grimes when all we needed was a rebound.That's two blown decisions before you get to his rotations and not having a veteran like DRose out there.
The substitution rests directly on Thibs. Grimes can call a timeout in that situation too. I would think that is on them both.
Can Grimes substitute himself out for Sims? Ultimately its Thibs decision to trust Grimes.
I was referring to the two different situations you reference.
The substitution is all Thibs.
When Grimes is doubled on the line he can call time out too, and it would probably come faster than of Thibs called it. I think they both share the blame on that one. The more I see Grimes in certain situations, while a real good defender and decent scorer, he is making some very bad decisions/having real bad mental lapses when he is facing pressure situations.
I noticed that too but its too early in Grimes career for me to be concerned. Was a bench player last season without much responsibility. Now Grimes is a starter, more pressure. Going to take time to find out if its really an issue.
More concerned with Randle choking again. Has one game where he's clutch, and its treated like a national holiday.
joec32033 wrote:Sambakick wrote:TPercy wrote:Sambakick wrote:TPercy wrote:What a shit loss and this is 1000% on the playersNot gonna let you get away with making this post without explanation.
I’m sorry but whose fault is it that these guys are paid millions of dollars and can’t hit their free throws? This is 1000% their fault. They had the game and they screwed the pooch.
We were up 9 with 44 seconds left and two timeouts. Only 1 free throw was missed.. We shouldn't be in any position where one miss threatens a 9 point lead. This is THIBS fault at least 99%
44.1 Julius Randle makes 2-foot two point shot 110 101
44.1 Mavericks Full timeout 110 101
41.1 Luka Doncic makes driving layup (Spencer Dinwiddie assists) 110 103
33.2 Christian Wood personal take foul 110 103
33.2 Miles McBride makes free throw 1 of 2 111 103
33.2 Miles McBride makes free throw 2 of 2 112 103
26.1 Christian Wood makes 28-foot three point jumper (Tim Hardaway Jr. assists) 112 106
21.0 Quentin Grimes vs. Luka Doncic (Tim Hardaway Jr. gains possession) 112 106
21.0 Quentin Grimes lost ball turnover (Luka Doncic steals) 112 106
18.0 Tim Hardaway Jr. misses 29-foot three point jumper 112 106
15.1 Luka Doncic offensive rebound 112 106
15.1 Luka Doncic makes two point shot 112 108
15.1 Immanuel Quickley shooting foul 112 108
15.1 Luka Doncic makes free throw 1 of 1 112 109
15.1 Knicks Full timeout 112 109
15.1 Reggie Bullock enters the game for Christian Wood 112 109
15.1 Frank Ntilikina enters the game for Dwight Powell 112 109
15.1 Derrick Rose enters the game for Mitchell Robinson 112 109
11.1 Luka Doncic personal take foul 112 109
11.1 Miles McBride misses free throw 1 of 2 112 109
11.1 Knicks offensive team rebound 112 109
11.1 Christian Wood enters the game for Reggie Bullock 112 109
11.1 Dwight Powell enters the game for Frank Ntilikina 112 109
11.1 Mitchell Robinson enters the game for Derrick Rose 112 109
11.1 Miles McBride makes free throw 2 of 2 113 109
11.1 Mavericks Full timeout 113 109
11.1 Reggie Bullock enters the game for Christian Wood 113 109
9.1 Spencer Dinwiddie makes 27-foot three pointer (Luka Doncic assists) 113 112
8.1 Knicks Full timeout 113 112
8.1 Frank Ntilikina enters the game for Dwight Powell 113 112
8.1 Derrick Rose enters the game for Mitchell Robinson 113 112
7.1 Spencer Dinwiddie personal take foul 113 112
7.1 Miles McBride makes free throw 1 of 2 114 112
7.1 Dwight Powell enters the game for Reggie Bullock 114 112
7.1 Christian Wood enters the game for Frank Ntilikina 114 112
7.1 Mitchell Robinson enters the game for Derrick Rose 114 112
7.1 Miles McBride makes free throw 2 of 2 115 112
4.0 Quentin Grimes personal take foul 115 112
4.0 Luka Doncic makes free throw 1 of 2 115 113
4.0 JaVale McGee enters the game for Dwight Powell 115 113
4.0 Luka Doncic misses free throw 2 of 2 115 113
1.0 Luka Doncic offensive rebound 115 113
1.0 Luka Doncic makes 11-foot jumper 115 115
0.0 Immanuel Quickley misses 62-foot three point jumper 115 115
0.0 Knicks offensive team rebound 115 115I may be old school but, free throws or no free throws, not giving up 9 points on the final minute would fall directly on the players shitting the bed on defense.
I mean, Grimes was overmatched against Doncic. Grimes is a fine defender but when Doncic bodied him or put his body between Grimes and the ball with his unorthodox shooting angles, Grimes was helpless. I would have liked to see Cam called in as a defensive specialist to try and cool Doncic off. Having Barrett should have helped a lot.
Randle could have had a triple double if he reacted to defenses a moment sooner. He is in the habit of dribbling into the double and jump passing instead of taking what the defense gives him. It shows a lack of faith in his teammates. So often, guys are wide open after the double and Randle waits a half a second too long and the defense adjusts. He needs to make better reads.
Can’t really argue about this loss though being down both Brunson and Barrett. They played a great 47 minutes and 25 seconds. But the plane that only gets 99% of the way to its destination…
Takeaway is
McBride needs to get looser on offense. He plays stiff. His defense is elite. Just needs to loosen up a bit. More passing and touches will achieve this.
Rose - As much as I love the guy, I just don’t think he is effective on the court lately. I’d rather see Cam getting those spot minutes.
Hart - I am not a huge fan.
Grimes - Still making some costly errors. I agree this is growing pains. Knicks probably need to drill situational options. It’s becoming pattern that he is holding the ball. Here it looked like he assumed he would get fouled instead of tied up.
Sims - The inability to hit a 7 foot jumper hurt. He probably could have leapt that same distance.
The fact that we don’t have play calls for late game situations and just use iso ball dribble work is a shame.
Robinson - Man, those FT misses were costly.
Sucks to lose 4 straight after winning 8 but 8-4 is still a good run. Next two games aren’t gimmes the way we play, but we should be able to notch a couple wins.
GustavBahler wrote:joec32033 wrote:Sambakick wrote:joec32033 wrote:Sambakick wrote:joec32033 wrote:
I may be old school but, free throws or no free throws, not giving up 9 points on the final minute would fall directly on the players shitting the bed on defense.
1. Thibs not calling timeout when Grimes was doubled at the baseline.
2. Thibs not putting Sims in for Grimes when all we needed was a rebound.That's two blown decisions before you get to his rotations and not having a veteran like DRose out there.
The substitution rests directly on Thibs. Grimes can call a timeout in that situation too. I would think that is on them both.
Can Grimes substitute himself out for Sims? Ultimately its Thibs decision to trust Grimes.
I was referring to the two different situations you reference.
The substitution is all Thibs.
When Grimes is doubled on the line he can call time out too, and it would probably come faster than of Thibs called it. I think they both share the blame on that one. The more I see Grimes in certain situations, while a real good defender and decent scorer, he is making some very bad decisions/having real bad mental lapses when he is facing pressure situations.I noticed that too but its too early in Grimes career for me to be concerned. Was a bench player last season without much responsibility. Now Grimes is a starter, more pressure. Going to take time to find out if its really an issue.
More concerned with Randle choking again. Has one game where he's clutch, and its treated like a national holiday.
Curious when you thought he choked? Sam broke down the last 41 really well on this thread.
Randle played well. He made a couple of good passes to open guys in last two minutes and they missed their shots. Including two close range ones by Hart.
I noticed poor exterior defense in last couple of minutes. Our two lock down youngins showed it's hard to stop NBA guys from scoring. Deuce played the ball instead of the man on that three by Din. Dinwiddie hit two big three's on him in the last two minutes. Grimes was jumpy on defense with Luka taking full advantage. Grimes got a little flustered, yet again, in close games. Our two main PGs(IQ and Deuce) went 9-36. Biggest thing was that we had guys logging in crazy minutes due to injuries. It showed late in the game and OT. But you seem to have different glasses.
I saw a tough game. Good play by Randle and Grimes. Randle's non "national holiday game" had 29/19. He also moved the ball well yet again. Grimes got 33 and looked like a better fit than RJ. IQ played well with an amazing 15 assists and also looked like he made the offense flow better than JB. He just missed too many shots. Deuce got some good PT and dropped 14. Many in here wanted him to get the chance to play. MR had another strong game with 20. If Mavs get one less BS call, miss just one of those last minute shots or Deuce and Grimes get that last rebound instead of knocking it out to Luka, we win that game and NO ONE on here is bringing up why we lost the game.
Loss sucks but only thing we can do is take some positives from it. But yeah, we need a win bad. The last couple of last second losses have been a kick in the nuts.
HofstraBBall wrote:GustavBahler wrote:joec32033 wrote:Sambakick wrote:joec32033 wrote:Sambakick wrote:joec32033 wrote:
I may be old school but, free throws or no free throws, not giving up 9 points on the final minute would fall directly on the players shitting the bed on defense.
1. Thibs not calling timeout when Grimes was doubled at the baseline.
2. Thibs not putting Sims in for Grimes when all we needed was a rebound.That's two blown decisions before you get to his rotations and not having a veteran like DRose out there.
The substitution rests directly on Thibs. Grimes can call a timeout in that situation too. I would think that is on them both.
Can Grimes substitute himself out for Sims? Ultimately its Thibs decision to trust Grimes.
I was referring to the two different situations you reference.
The substitution is all Thibs.
When Grimes is doubled on the line he can call time out too, and it would probably come faster than of Thibs called it. I think they both share the blame on that one. The more I see Grimes in certain situations, while a real good defender and decent scorer, he is making some very bad decisions/having real bad mental lapses when he is facing pressure situations.I noticed that too but its too early in Grimes career for me to be concerned. Was a bench player last season without much responsibility. Now Grimes is a starter, more pressure. Going to take time to find out if its really an issue.
More concerned with Randle choking again. Has one game where he's clutch, and its treated like a national holiday.
Curious when you thought he choked? Sam broke down the last 41 really well on this thread.
Randle played well. He made a couple of good passes to open guys in last two minutes and they missed their shots. Including two close range ones by Hart.I noticed poor exterior defense in last couple of minutes. Our two lock down youngins showed it's hard to stop NBA guys from scoring. Deuce played the ball instead of the man on that three by Din. Dinwiddie hit two big three's on him in the last two minutes. Grimes was jumpy on defense with Luka taking full advantage. Grimes got a little flustered, yet again, in close games. Our two main PGs(IQ and Deuce) went 9-36. Biggest thing was that we had guys logging in crazy minutes due to injuries. It showed late in the game and OT. But you seem to have different glasses.
I saw a tough game. Good play by Randle and Grimes. Randle's non "national holiday game" had 29/19. He also moved the ball well yet again. Grimes got 33 and looked like a better fit than RJ. IQ played well with an amazing 15 assists and also looked like he made the offense flow better than JB. He just missed too many shots. Deuce got some good PT and dropped 14. Many in here wanted him to get the chance to play. MR had another strong game with 20. If Mavs get one less BS call, miss just one of those last minute shots or Deuce and Grimes get that last rebound instead of knocking it out to Luka, we win that game and NO ONE on here is bringing up why we lost the game.
Loss sucks but only thing we can do is take some positives from it. But yeah, we need a win bad. The last couple of last second losses have been a kick in the nuts.
The two missed free throws in crunch time. I'm sure you've played in games where someone on your team bricked a couple of free throws, and it took some of the air out of the team. Just enough for the other team to pounce. This happens a lot with Randle. As I've said before, if Randle was the third or fourth best player on the team, these lapses in crunch time, would be more understandable.
If one were to look back at Randle's 2020 season, there's a good chance you'll find I was the first person to point out that this was a different player. I appreciate what he brings to the table, but he plays too an important role in the offense to have so many lapses in crunch time, which extends beyond that excellent recap by Sam.
I dont believe we can build a roster where Randle is a 3rd or 4th option. Because of the cap, and I dont believe the FO wants to gut the bench.
The season isnt over, anything can happen. Unless Randle starts being more of an asset than a liability in crunch time, I believe the FO should look to upgrade. We can go around in circles about who. Players ask to be traded, some are too expensive to keep, someone worth pursuing may become available. Have to wait and see, with Randle, and who is or will be available.
Alpha1971 wrote:Human bodies have limits. The players played too much.
Good thing Cam is still coach DNP. We might accidentally win a game
I do hope the first thing the next coach or all star can cover are crunch time FTs and securing loose balls. Grimes and McBride staring at each other playing hot potato while Luka takes in and shoots it. THAT was the game right there. Stop with the other BS.
This actually how young teams grow and develop. By playing to win, even if you come up short. Good game for no RJ/Brunson... really painful loss
Simple shit too. Missed FTs, rebounds, coaching and bad calls. The 'jump ball' with Grimes was not a good call imo. It happened way too fast before Dallas even had a chance to really grab the ball. And usually they call a foul on those. And the first offensive rebound putback off Hardaway Jr's missed three with Luka was not a foul. IQ barely touched him and it did not affect his shot. And of course Deuce and Grimes' inability to grab a damn rebound there at the end. It was just the perfect storm and Dallas took advantage.
Give Luka credit. That was arguably the best game against the Knicks in NBA history after Wilt's 100. It's something they will talk about and show highlights until the end of time.
Not much else to say. The only way this could have been worse is if it happened at home on Christmas. It hurts and it sucks. It's the type of loss that makes you question as a fan it's worth investing so much time and energy. Cause right now it doesn't seem worth it.
Deuce 4-15 and 1-9 from 3.
Dear lord.
fishmike wrote:Knick fans... find was to blame the coach. Blame Randle... GustavBahler thinks IQ should (after shoot 1-10 from 3 with 15 assists) play SG instead of PG. Phil thinks we should have played Cam. All good stuffI do hope the first thing the next coach or all star can cover are crunch time FTs and securing loose balls. Grimes and McBride staring at each other playing hot potato while Luka takes in and shoots it. THAT was the game right there. Stop with the other BS.
This actually how young teams grow and develop. By playing to win, even if you come up short. Good game for no RJ/Brunson... really painful loss
Thats just weak fishmike. Been saying since IQ's rookie year that he's a better scorer when thats his primary role, not running the point as well.
IQ wasnt looking to score in the first half, and guys were hitting their shots.
No blame for Thibs for the distribution of minutes, or Randle for bricking game changing FTs. Its all on the young guys. Interesting.
fishmike wrote:Knick fans... find was to blame the coach. Blame Randle... GustavBahler thinks IQ should (after shoot 1-10 from 3 with 15 assists) play SG instead of PG. Phil thinks we should have played Cam. All good stuffI do hope the first thing the next coach or all star can cover are crunch time FTs and securing loose balls. Grimes and McBride staring at each other playing hot potato while Luka takes in and shoots it. THAT was the game right there. Stop with the other BS.
This actually how young teams grow and develop. By playing to win, even if you come up short. Good game for no RJ/Brunson... really painful loss
Can we still blame RJ?
LivingLegend wrote:Quick 5-21 and 1-10 from 3.Deuce 4-15 and 1-9 from 3.
Dear lord.
Developing the kids
GustavBahler wrote:did you actually watch? See it unfold? Weak is your desperation to find Randle's fault in this. Randle got us to a place where all we had to do was secure ONE rebound. We had two players with it in their hands. Luka took it and scored it. THAT was the game with 1 second. Really nothing matters but THAT play. Randle was a star. Grimes was a star. Our guys played great. Closing games matters and young teams struggle with that. They will learn. They are well coached (expect when Thibs isnt yelling "hold the ball or "hit that FT")fishmike wrote:Knick fans... find was to blame the coach. Blame Randle... GustavBahler thinks IQ should (after shoot 1-10 from 3 with 15 assists) play SG instead of PG. Phil thinks we should have played Cam. All good stuffI do hope the first thing the next coach or all star can cover are crunch time FTs and securing loose balls. Grimes and McBride staring at each other playing hot potato while Luka takes in and shoots it. THAT was the game right there. Stop with the other BS.
This actually how young teams grow and develop. By playing to win, even if you come up short. Good game for no RJ/Brunson... really painful loss
Thats just weak fishmike. Been saying since IQ's rookie year that he's a better scorer when thats his primary role, not running the point as well.
IQ wasnt looking to score in the first half, and guys were hitting their shots.
No blame for Thibs for the distribution of minutes, or Randle for bricking game changing FTs. Its all on the young guys. Interesting.
Distribution of minutes? This happens. Its the NBA. Its like you dont even follow the league. Every team does this and has nights like this. Luka played just as much as our guys. Give me a break.
Thats just weak fishmike. Been saying since IQ's rookie year that he's a better scorer when thats his primary role, not running the point as well.You have been wrong since his rookie year then. He's never been anything but a streaky scorer, developing the other parts of his game are why he's improving. The guy's hovered around 40% shooting and 35% from 3 since he's been in the league. You want to make him a full time scorer. I'm glad your not our coach
SergioNYK wrote:That was one of the worst losses and the biggest choke jobs in NBA history. To be up 9 with 26 seconds to go and lose, it almost seems impossible. It's the type of loss that could derail a team and a season. And we have nobody to blame but ourselves. This was supposed to be a feel good win. Undermanned on the road getting revenge against a team that embarrassed us at home. There would have been so many good things to feel good about. Grimes coming through and we needed him and coming up with a 33 points career game. IQ playing like Stockton with 15 assists. Randle showing leadership and leading the way with 29/18/4. And it was all for nothing.absolutely painful but these are the losses that push teams to get better. You gotta play well AND finish well. Grimes had an amazing game but he will only remember the loose ball Luke took from him with 1 second less. This is what the work and the process really looks like.Simple shit too. Missed FTs, rebounds, coaching and bad calls. The 'jump ball' with Grimes was not a good call imo. It happened way too fast before Dallas even had a chance to really grab the ball. And usually they call a foul on those. And the first offensive rebound putback off Hardaway Jr's missed three with Luka was not a foul. IQ barely touched him and it did not affect his shot. And of course Deuce and Grimes' inability to grab a damn rebound there at the end. It was just the perfect storm and Dallas took advantage.
Give Luka credit. That was arguably the best game against the Knicks in NBA history after Wilt's 100. It's something they will talk about and show highlights until the end of time.
Not much else to say. The only way this could have been worse is if it happened at home on Christmas. It hurts and it sucks. It's the type of loss that makes you question as a fan it's worth investing so much time and energy. Cause right now it doesn't seem worth it.
GustavBahler wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:GustavBahler wrote:joec32033 wrote:Sambakick wrote:joec32033 wrote:Sambakick wrote:joec32033 wrote:
I may be old school but, free throws or no free throws, not giving up 9 points on the final minute would fall directly on the players shitting the bed on defense.
1. Thibs not calling timeout when Grimes was doubled at the baseline.
2. Thibs not putting Sims in for Grimes when all we needed was a rebound.That's two blown decisions before you get to his rotations and not having a veteran like DRose out there.
The substitution rests directly on Thibs. Grimes can call a timeout in that situation too. I would think that is on them both.
Can Grimes substitute himself out for Sims? Ultimately its Thibs decision to trust Grimes.
I was referring to the two different situations you reference.
The substitution is all Thibs.
When Grimes is doubled on the line he can call time out too, and it would probably come faster than of Thibs called it. I think they both share the blame on that one. The more I see Grimes in certain situations, while a real good defender and decent scorer, he is making some very bad decisions/having real bad mental lapses when he is facing pressure situations.I noticed that too but its too early in Grimes career for me to be concerned. Was a bench player last season without much responsibility. Now Grimes is a starter, more pressure. Going to take time to find out if its really an issue.
More concerned with Randle choking again. Has one game where he's clutch, and its treated like a national holiday.
Curious when you thought he choked? Sam broke down the last 41 really well on this thread.
Randle played well. He made a couple of good passes to open guys in last two minutes and they missed their shots. Including two close range ones by Hart.I noticed poor exterior defense in last couple of minutes. Our two lock down youngins showed it's hard to stop NBA guys from scoring. Deuce played the ball instead of the man on that three by Din. Dinwiddie hit two big three's on him in the last two minutes. Grimes was jumpy on defense with Luka taking full advantage. Grimes got a little flustered, yet again, in close games. Our two main PGs(IQ and Deuce) went 9-36. Biggest thing was that we had guys logging in crazy minutes due to injuries. It showed late in the game and OT. But you seem to have different glasses.
I saw a tough game. Good play by Randle and Grimes. Randle's non "national holiday game" had 29/19. He also moved the ball well yet again. Grimes got 33 and looked like a better fit than RJ. IQ played well with an amazing 15 assists and also looked like he made the offense flow better than JB. He just missed too many shots. Deuce got some good PT and dropped 14. Many in here wanted him to get the chance to play. MR had another strong game with 20. If Mavs get one less BS call, miss just one of those last minute shots or Deuce and Grimes get that last rebound instead of knocking it out to Luka, we win that game and NO ONE on here is bringing up why we lost the game.
Loss sucks but only thing we can do is take some positives from it. But yeah, we need a win bad. The last couple of last second losses have been a kick in the nuts.
The two missed free throws in crunch time. I'm sure you've played in games where someone on your team bricked a couple of free throws, and it took some of the air out of the team. Just enough for the other team to pounce. This happens a lot with Randle. As I've said before, if Randle was the third or fourth best player on the team, these lapses in crunch time, would be more understandable.If one were to look back at Randle's 2020 season, there's a good chance you'll find I was the first person to point out that this was a different player. I appreciate what he brings to the table, but he plays too an important role in the offense to have so many lapses in crunch time, which extends beyond that excellent recap by Sam.
I dont believe we can build a roster where Randle is a 3rd or 4th option. Because of the cap, and I dont believe the FO wants to gut the bench.
The season isnt over, anything can happen. Unless Randle starts being more of an asset than a liability in crunch time, I believe the FO should look to upgrade. We can go around in circles about who. Players ask to be traded, some are too expensive to keep, someone worth pursuing may become available. Have to wait and see, with Randle, and who is or will be available.
"Crunch time" was last minute of the game? You talking overtime when everyone was spent? He put Knicks in a position that OT should not have happened. But true, pros should not miss Foul shots. But if you want to ignore yet another good game in an impressive last 15 and blame him for the loss while pushing the same ole "let's trade him for someone that does not exist", I guess ok.
Don't think guys that feel he is not a good player will ever appreciate what he brings. Not gonna try. Think some probably will when he is gone and we have yet another victim many expect to be perfect to pick on. My take has always been that many criticize him for not being a number one ignoring what a true No 1 costs. Including giving up many many assets. That and that 20/10 should be useful to a team. I am all for upgrades. But you do know we need that at EVERY position. Don't see guys yelling trade those guys every chance they get Btw, Still yet to see a trade proposal where we get an upgrade for him?
My point earlier waa Randle missing fouls shots in OT was low on list of why we lost.