Knicks · [Game Thread 2/7/23] Knicks at Magic 7PM (page 11)
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On a positive note RJ got close enough to rest his face on Franz shoulder - baby steps.
martin wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:In the Knicks case, I think most people will tell you the Knicks are playing at their highest possible ceiling.Maybe your perspective is different or something but I just don't agree with this.
Grimes is going to get much better. Jalen is still figuring things out on offense and has a TON of room to get better. Same with Deuce. Same with RJ.
My question would be: how is it remotely possible that anyone woudl think this iteration of guys is anywhere near a possible ceiling.
Just no way "most people" are inline with what you are saying they are. Maybe state your own case.
I'm in this camp. it's one thing to say say they are playing really well right now, or about as well as i can expect them to play at this given moment.
But that's not the same thing as "ceiling" bcause many of these players are still ascending. We're not used to that. We honestly don't know how good these guys will be be/get until they start to decline (i.e., guys we typically used to target in FA and trades -- best years behind them 
)
Jebus, Sims almost hit a 3/4 court shot and dribbled between his legs. Also brought the ball over half court with alacrity
edit: just want to make clear no disrespect to BigDaddy. One of my absolute favorite posters; have learned a lot from his posts
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there have been a number of these instances where RJ is having an off night shooting and it affects the other aspects of his game. He was like 1-9 at one point last night and i was saying to my dog (only thing in house willing to listen to me during a game) that everyone else was at least decent hitting shots and this guy is either going to shoot his way out of a slump or kill the team this game. Guy needs to screw his head on right when shot isn't falling and double effort elsewhere
martin wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:martin wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:In the Knicks case, I think most people will tell you the Knicks are playing at their highest possible ceiling.Maybe your perspective is different or something but I just don't agree with this.
Grimes is going to get much better. Jalen is still figuring things out on offense and has a TON of room to get better. Same with Deuce. Same with RJ.
My question would be: how is it remotely possible that anyone woudl think this iteration of guys is anywhere near a possible ceiling.
Just no way "most people" are inline with what you are saying they are. Maybe state your own case.
Vegas odds had the over under at 38.5 wins. You look at most preseason projections, most pundits had us pencilled in at the play-in. Grimes projects as a good starter. Not enough to carry this team past mid unless he reaches the highest levels of his season. IQ projects as a quality starter sixth-man. Let's say they keep him and he does reach his highest potential. Still doesn't change the standings much without a whole lot of help. I didn't say all of our players have maxed out it's potential. I said the team, as it currently stands is mid and will need a whole lot of talent to break out of that holding pattern.That is an entirely different statement than "the Knicks are playing at their highest possible ceiling".
No one will disagree with the Knicks needing to add players to get to another level, meaning like top 4 and contender.
I meant what I said. This team, with the current roster tops out as a mid team. That's taking into account any realistic player development that's yet to be reached. Let's say RJ finally becomes a league average wing and is able to make up for the Randle's probable decline as he gets to 30 and beyond. It doesn't raise the ceiling much. Let's say Grimes becomes a top role player/starter and McBride learns to shoot at a decent level? IQ is already good and I don't expect him to improve that much over the next two years. Maybe he becomes more consistent from 3 and gains more experience. I still see this roster capped as being mid. I don't see anyone on the team who still has a decent developmental window that has enough talent to change that. You want to say that's a bit of an overstatement? Fine, they could be the 5th seed one day. But that's it. They need to go out and get a real difference maker through draft, trade or FA.
BigDaddyG wrote:martin wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:martin wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:In the Knicks case, I think most people will tell you the Knicks are playing at their highest possible ceiling.Maybe your perspective is different or something but I just don't agree with this.
Grimes is going to get much better. Jalen is still figuring things out on offense and has a TON of room to get better. Same with Deuce. Same with RJ.
My question would be: how is it remotely possible that anyone woudl think this iteration of guys is anywhere near a possible ceiling.
Just no way "most people" are inline with what you are saying they are. Maybe state your own case.
Vegas odds had the over under at 38.5 wins. You look at most preseason projections, most pundits had us pencilled in at the play-in. Grimes projects as a good starter. Not enough to carry this team past mid unless he reaches the highest levels of his season. IQ projects as a quality starter sixth-man. Let's say they keep him and he does reach his highest potential. Still doesn't change the standings much without a whole lot of help. I didn't say all of our players have maxed out it's potential. I said the team, as it currently stands is mid and will need a whole lot of talent to break out of that holding pattern.That is an entirely different statement than "the Knicks are playing at their highest possible ceiling".
No one will disagree with the Knicks needing to add players to get to another level, meaning like top 4 and contender.
I meant what I said. This team, with the current roster tops out as a mid team. That's taking into account any realistic player development that's yet to be reached. Let's say RJ finally becomes a league average wing and is able to make up for the Randle's probable decline as he gets to 30 and beyond. It doesn't raise the ceiling much. Let's say Grimes becomes a top role player/starter and McBride learns to shoot at a decent level? IQ is already good and I don't expect him to improve that much over the next two years. Maybe he becomes more consistent from 3 and gains more experience. I still see this roster capped as being mid. I don't see anyone on the team who still has a decent developmental window that has enough talent to change that. You want to say that's a bit of an overstatement? Fine, they could be the 5th seed one day. But that's it. They need to go out and get a real difference maker through draft, trade or FA.
I don't think you will find anyone who will dispute that last sentence. It's a no brainer.
martin wrote:BigDaddyG all that is fine and if it does happen it projects to a 2nd round team similar to the Lowry driven Raptors. That's a team in the mix every year and was literally ONE player away. Considering the Fizdale led shit show and a roster built around HOPE FOR FRANK its a good job of running this team.BigDaddyG wrote:martin wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:martin wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:In the Knicks case, I think most people will tell you the Knicks are playing at their highest possible ceiling.Maybe your perspective is different or something but I just don't agree with this.
Grimes is going to get much better. Jalen is still figuring things out on offense and has a TON of room to get better. Same with Deuce. Same with RJ.
My question would be: how is it remotely possible that anyone woudl think this iteration of guys is anywhere near a possible ceiling.
Just no way "most people" are inline with what you are saying they are. Maybe state your own case.
Vegas odds had the over under at 38.5 wins. You look at most preseason projections, most pundits had us pencilled in at the play-in. Grimes projects as a good starter. Not enough to carry this team past mid unless he reaches the highest levels of his season. IQ projects as a quality starter sixth-man. Let's say they keep him and he does reach his highest potential. Still doesn't change the standings much without a whole lot of help. I didn't say all of our players have maxed out it's potential. I said the team, as it currently stands is mid and will need a whole lot of talent to break out of that holding pattern.That is an entirely different statement than "the Knicks are playing at their highest possible ceiling".
No one will disagree with the Knicks needing to add players to get to another level, meaning like top 4 and contender.
I meant what I said. This team, with the current roster tops out as a mid team. That's taking into account any realistic player development that's yet to be reached. Let's say RJ finally becomes a league average wing and is able to make up for the Randle's probable decline as he gets to 30 and beyond. It doesn't raise the ceiling much. Let's say Grimes becomes a top role player/starter and McBride learns to shoot at a decent level? IQ is already good and I don't expect him to improve that much over the next two years. Maybe he becomes more consistent from 3 and gains more experience. I still see this roster capped as being mid. I don't see anyone on the team who still has a decent developmental window that has enough talent to change that. You want to say that's a bit of an overstatement? Fine, they could be the 5th seed one day. But that's it. They need to go out and get a real difference maker through draft, trade or FA.
I don't think you will find anyone who will dispute that last sentence. It's a no brainer.
Can we get that one player? You would need trade assets. You would need extra picks to land a lucky outlier. You would need a flexible roster with desirable players with team friendly contracts... see where I am going with this?
fishmike wrote:martin wrote:BigDaddyG all that is fine and if it does happen it projects to a 2nd round team similar to the Lowry driven Raptors. That's a team in the mix every year and was literally ONE player away. Considering the Fizdale led shit show and a roster built around HOPE FOR FRANK its a good job of running this team.BigDaddyG wrote:martin wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:martin wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:In the Knicks case, I think most people will tell you the Knicks are playing at their highest possible ceiling.Maybe your perspective is different or something but I just don't agree with this.
Grimes is going to get much better. Jalen is still figuring things out on offense and has a TON of room to get better. Same with Deuce. Same with RJ.
My question would be: how is it remotely possible that anyone woudl think this iteration of guys is anywhere near a possible ceiling.
Just no way "most people" are inline with what you are saying they are. Maybe state your own case.
Vegas odds had the over under at 38.5 wins. You look at most preseason projections, most pundits had us pencilled in at the play-in. Grimes projects as a good starter. Not enough to carry this team past mid unless he reaches the highest levels of his season. IQ projects as a quality starter sixth-man. Let's say they keep him and he does reach his highest potential. Still doesn't change the standings much without a whole lot of help. I didn't say all of our players have maxed out it's potential. I said the team, as it currently stands is mid and will need a whole lot of talent to break out of that holding pattern.That is an entirely different statement than "the Knicks are playing at their highest possible ceiling".
No one will disagree with the Knicks needing to add players to get to another level, meaning like top 4 and contender.
I meant what I said. This team, with the current roster tops out as a mid team. That's taking into account any realistic player development that's yet to be reached. Let's say RJ finally becomes a league average wing and is able to make up for the Randle's probable decline as he gets to 30 and beyond. It doesn't raise the ceiling much. Let's say Grimes becomes a top role player/starter and McBride learns to shoot at a decent level? IQ is already good and I don't expect him to improve that much over the next two years. Maybe he becomes more consistent from 3 and gains more experience. I still see this roster capped as being mid. I don't see anyone on the team who still has a decent developmental window that has enough talent to change that. You want to say that's a bit of an overstatement? Fine, they could be the 5th seed one day. But that's it. They need to go out and get a real difference maker through draft, trade or FA.
I don't think you will find anyone who will dispute that last sentence. It's a no brainer.
Can we get that one player? You would need trade assets. You would need extra picks to land a lucky outlier. You would need a flexible roster with desirable players with team friendly contracts... see where I am going with this?
That one player was a future HOFer, on a deep squad. Are we a deep squad? Thibs doesnt seem to think so, judging by the rotation.
GustavBahler wrote:judging against what? Other NBA teams or your YMCA squad your coaching? Also if you actually looked at the Toronto team they basically played 7 so....fishmike wrote:martin wrote:BigDaddyG all that is fine and if it does happen it projects to a 2nd round team similar to the Lowry driven Raptors. That's a team in the mix every year and was literally ONE player away. Considering the Fizdale led shit show and a roster built around HOPE FOR FRANK its a good job of running this team.BigDaddyG wrote:martin wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:martin wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:In the Knicks case, I think most people will tell you the Knicks are playing at their highest possible ceiling.Maybe your perspective is different or something but I just don't agree with this.
Grimes is going to get much better. Jalen is still figuring things out on offense and has a TON of room to get better. Same with Deuce. Same with RJ.
My question would be: how is it remotely possible that anyone woudl think this iteration of guys is anywhere near a possible ceiling.
Just no way "most people" are inline with what you are saying they are. Maybe state your own case.
Vegas odds had the over under at 38.5 wins. You look at most preseason projections, most pundits had us pencilled in at the play-in. Grimes projects as a good starter. Not enough to carry this team past mid unless he reaches the highest levels of his season. IQ projects as a quality starter sixth-man. Let's say they keep him and he does reach his highest potential. Still doesn't change the standings much without a whole lot of help. I didn't say all of our players have maxed out it's potential. I said the team, as it currently stands is mid and will need a whole lot of talent to break out of that holding pattern.That is an entirely different statement than "the Knicks are playing at their highest possible ceiling".
No one will disagree with the Knicks needing to add players to get to another level, meaning like top 4 and contender.
I meant what I said. This team, with the current roster tops out as a mid team. That's taking into account any realistic player development that's yet to be reached. Let's say RJ finally becomes a league average wing and is able to make up for the Randle's probable decline as he gets to 30 and beyond. It doesn't raise the ceiling much. Let's say Grimes becomes a top role player/starter and McBride learns to shoot at a decent level? IQ is already good and I don't expect him to improve that much over the next two years. Maybe he becomes more consistent from 3 and gains more experience. I still see this roster capped as being mid. I don't see anyone on the team who still has a decent developmental window that has enough talent to change that. You want to say that's a bit of an overstatement? Fine, they could be the 5th seed one day. But that's it. They need to go out and get a real difference maker through draft, trade or FA.
I don't think you will find anyone who will dispute that last sentence. It's a no brainer.
Can we get that one player? You would need trade assets. You would need extra picks to land a lucky outlier. You would need a flexible roster with desirable players with team friendly contracts... see where I am going with this?
That one player was a future HOFer, on a deep squad. Are we a deep squad? Thibs doesnt seem to think so, judging by the rotation.
Brunson
Grimes
Kawhwi
Randle
Mitch
Bench IQ/IHart
As is? Yeah... I think that's a team that competes for a title. So....
fishmike wrote:GustavBahler wrote:judging against what? Other NBA teams or your YMCA squad your coaching? Also if you actually looked at the Toronto team they basically played 7 so....fishmike wrote:martin wrote:BigDaddyG all that is fine and if it does happen it projects to a 2nd round team similar to the Lowry driven Raptors. That's a team in the mix every year and was literally ONE player away. Considering the Fizdale led shit show and a roster built around HOPE FOR FRANK its a good job of running this team.BigDaddyG wrote:martin wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:martin wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:In the Knicks case, I think most people will tell you the Knicks are playing at their highest possible ceiling.Maybe your perspective is different or something but I just don't agree with this.
Grimes is going to get much better. Jalen is still figuring things out on offense and has a TON of room to get better. Same with Deuce. Same with RJ.
My question would be: how is it remotely possible that anyone woudl think this iteration of guys is anywhere near a possible ceiling.
Just no way "most people" are inline with what you are saying they are. Maybe state your own case.
Vegas odds had the over under at 38.5 wins. You look at most preseason projections, most pundits had us pencilled in at the play-in. Grimes projects as a good starter. Not enough to carry this team past mid unless he reaches the highest levels of his season. IQ projects as a quality starter sixth-man. Let's say they keep him and he does reach his highest potential. Still doesn't change the standings much without a whole lot of help. I didn't say all of our players have maxed out it's potential. I said the team, as it currently stands is mid and will need a whole lot of talent to break out of that holding pattern.That is an entirely different statement than "the Knicks are playing at their highest possible ceiling".
No one will disagree with the Knicks needing to add players to get to another level, meaning like top 4 and contender.
I meant what I said. This team, with the current roster tops out as a mid team. That's taking into account any realistic player development that's yet to be reached. Let's say RJ finally becomes a league average wing and is able to make up for the Randle's probable decline as he gets to 30 and beyond. It doesn't raise the ceiling much. Let's say Grimes becomes a top role player/starter and McBride learns to shoot at a decent level? IQ is already good and I don't expect him to improve that much over the next two years. Maybe he becomes more consistent from 3 and gains more experience. I still see this roster capped as being mid. I don't see anyone on the team who still has a decent developmental window that has enough talent to change that. You want to say that's a bit of an overstatement? Fine, they could be the 5th seed one day. But that's it. They need to go out and get a real difference maker through draft, trade or FA.
I don't think you will find anyone who will dispute that last sentence. It's a no brainer.
Can we get that one player? You would need trade assets. You would need extra picks to land a lucky outlier. You would need a flexible roster with desirable players with team friendly contracts... see where I am going with this?
That one player was a future HOFer, on a deep squad. Are we a deep squad? Thibs doesnt seem to think so, judging by the rotation.
Brunson
Grimes
Kawhwi
Randle
Mitch
Bench IQ/IHartAs is? Yeah... I think that's a team that competes for a title. So....
Snarked right around my point. Where is this HOFer in his prime? Not your time travel fantasy.
And its judging by the fact that Fournier and Rose are spending most of this season on the bench, after being rotation players not so long ago.
GustavBahler wrote:Do you think Toronto had Kawhi pegged? Or that was who shook free because SAS couldnt resign him. Obviously its a hypothetical but it fits nicely into the narrative doesnt it.fishmike wrote:GustavBahler wrote:judging against what? Other NBA teams or your YMCA squad your coaching? Also if you actually looked at the Toronto team they basically played 7 so....fishmike wrote:martin wrote:BigDaddyG all that is fine and if it does happen it projects to a 2nd round team similar to the Lowry driven Raptors. That's a team in the mix every year and was literally ONE player away. Considering the Fizdale led shit show and a roster built around HOPE FOR FRANK its a good job of running this team.BigDaddyG wrote:martin wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:martin wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:In the Knicks case, I think most people will tell you the Knicks are playing at their highest possible ceiling.Maybe your perspective is different or something but I just don't agree with this.
Grimes is going to get much better. Jalen is still figuring things out on offense and has a TON of room to get better. Same with Deuce. Same with RJ.
My question would be: how is it remotely possible that anyone woudl think this iteration of guys is anywhere near a possible ceiling.
Just no way "most people" are inline with what you are saying they are. Maybe state your own case.
Vegas odds had the over under at 38.5 wins. You look at most preseason projections, most pundits had us pencilled in at the play-in. Grimes projects as a good starter. Not enough to carry this team past mid unless he reaches the highest levels of his season. IQ projects as a quality starter sixth-man. Let's say they keep him and he does reach his highest potential. Still doesn't change the standings much without a whole lot of help. I didn't say all of our players have maxed out it's potential. I said the team, as it currently stands is mid and will need a whole lot of talent to break out of that holding pattern.That is an entirely different statement than "the Knicks are playing at their highest possible ceiling".
No one will disagree with the Knicks needing to add players to get to another level, meaning like top 4 and contender.
I meant what I said. This team, with the current roster tops out as a mid team. That's taking into account any realistic player development that's yet to be reached. Let's say RJ finally becomes a league average wing and is able to make up for the Randle's probable decline as he gets to 30 and beyond. It doesn't raise the ceiling much. Let's say Grimes becomes a top role player/starter and McBride learns to shoot at a decent level? IQ is already good and I don't expect him to improve that much over the next two years. Maybe he becomes more consistent from 3 and gains more experience. I still see this roster capped as being mid. I don't see anyone on the team who still has a decent developmental window that has enough talent to change that. You want to say that's a bit of an overstatement? Fine, they could be the 5th seed one day. But that's it. They need to go out and get a real difference maker through draft, trade or FA.
I don't think you will find anyone who will dispute that last sentence. It's a no brainer.
Can we get that one player? You would need trade assets. You would need extra picks to land a lucky outlier. You would need a flexible roster with desirable players with team friendly contracts... see where I am going with this?
That one player was a future HOFer, on a deep squad. Are we a deep squad? Thibs doesnt seem to think so, judging by the rotation.
Brunson
Grimes
Kawhwi
Randle
Mitch
Bench IQ/IHartAs is? Yeah... I think that's a team that competes for a title. So....
Snarked right around my point. Where is this HOFer in his prime? Not your time travel fantasy.
And its judging by the fact that Fournier and Rose are spending most of this season on the bench, after being rotation players not so long ago.
fishmike wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Do you think Toronto had Kawhi pegged? Or that was who shook free because SAS couldnt resign him. Obviously its a hypothetical but it fits nicely into the narrative doesnt it.fishmike wrote:GustavBahler wrote:judging against what? Other NBA teams or your YMCA squad your coaching? Also if you actually looked at the Toronto team they basically played 7 so....fishmike wrote:martin wrote:BigDaddyG all that is fine and if it does happen it projects to a 2nd round team similar to the Lowry driven Raptors. That's a team in the mix every year and was literally ONE player away. Considering the Fizdale led shit show and a roster built around HOPE FOR FRANK its a good job of running this team.BigDaddyG wrote:martin wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:martin wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:In the Knicks case, I think most people will tell you the Knicks are playing at their highest possible ceiling.Maybe your perspective is different or something but I just don't agree with this.
Grimes is going to get much better. Jalen is still figuring things out on offense and has a TON of room to get better. Same with Deuce. Same with RJ.
My question would be: how is it remotely possible that anyone woudl think this iteration of guys is anywhere near a possible ceiling.
Just no way "most people" are inline with what you are saying they are. Maybe state your own case.
Vegas odds had the over under at 38.5 wins. You look at most preseason projections, most pundits had us pencilled in at the play-in. Grimes projects as a good starter. Not enough to carry this team past mid unless he reaches the highest levels of his season. IQ projects as a quality starter sixth-man. Let's say they keep him and he does reach his highest potential. Still doesn't change the standings much without a whole lot of help. I didn't say all of our players have maxed out it's potential. I said the team, as it currently stands is mid and will need a whole lot of talent to break out of that holding pattern.That is an entirely different statement than "the Knicks are playing at their highest possible ceiling".
No one will disagree with the Knicks needing to add players to get to another level, meaning like top 4 and contender.
I meant what I said. This team, with the current roster tops out as a mid team. That's taking into account any realistic player development that's yet to be reached. Let's say RJ finally becomes a league average wing and is able to make up for the Randle's probable decline as he gets to 30 and beyond. It doesn't raise the ceiling much. Let's say Grimes becomes a top role player/starter and McBride learns to shoot at a decent level? IQ is already good and I don't expect him to improve that much over the next two years. Maybe he becomes more consistent from 3 and gains more experience. I still see this roster capped as being mid. I don't see anyone on the team who still has a decent developmental window that has enough talent to change that. You want to say that's a bit of an overstatement? Fine, they could be the 5th seed one day. But that's it. They need to go out and get a real difference maker through draft, trade or FA.
I don't think you will find anyone who will dispute that last sentence. It's a no brainer.
Can we get that one player? You would need trade assets. You would need extra picks to land a lucky outlier. You would need a flexible roster with desirable players with team friendly contracts... see where I am going with this?
That one player was a future HOFer, on a deep squad. Are we a deep squad? Thibs doesnt seem to think so, judging by the rotation.
Brunson
Grimes
Kawhwi
Randle
Mitch
Bench IQ/IHartAs is? Yeah... I think that's a team that competes for a title. So....
Snarked right around my point. Where is this HOFer in his prime? Not your time travel fantasy.
And its judging by the fact that Fournier and Rose are spending most of this season on the bench, after being rotation players not so long ago.
Pegged how? I thought that part of the problem, was that Kawhi felt that the Spurs FO hadnt taken his season long injury seriously. Questioned his dedication, and that's what burned the bridge.
Raptors thought that winning a ring might make Kawhi want to stay and defend the title. But he wanted to go back to Cali, and didnt want to sign a long term deal. Or a short one, and risk getting hurt.