We are going to likely have to take a PF in the draft, obi is averaging 6 points in 14.5 minutes on 41% shooting (he’s a career 48% shooter, so he’s regressed)
He averages less than 3 rebounds per game and less than 1 assist per game.
Obi is either misused, a bust or a scrub.
Obi should be at 18 minutes per game and forcing thibs to play him, which he isn’t. He is basically serviceable at this point and you could get the same results with a replacement player at the PF spot from any PF bench player.
He’s not getting any major contract extension here based on those numbers.
Agreed. We won’t get much for him but Knicks will probably try to do him a solid and get him to a different situation that gives him more opportunity. Like reddish in Portland. Obi went from being a high energy guy to a player who spends his time just spotting up and cherry picking after opponent shots. He’s shooting 40% from the field which is bad for any player, let alone a big man. His 3pt shooting is now down to 33% which is barely passable. Whether he’s regressed or just can’t find rhythm in a limited role, I can’t see the Knicks sticking with him after this year. It’s tough because he’s the team’s last lottery pick and is a local talent, but it’s just not working out and it’s the weak link in the rotation.
2 guys the Knicks could draft; Kris Murray or Taylor Hendricks. Either one of them would be an excellent backup PF for this team from a skill set perspective. Murray can shoot, rebound well, and moves well without the ball. He’s not a high flier. He’s the total opposite as Obi and probably excels in the role they have Obi in. Same with Hendricks. He’s a great outside shooter, good rebounder and shot blocker. Really talented defender who might take a little longer but has some upside. Both of these guys can play the 3 or 4. I know we are only talking 12-14 mpg, but imagine this Knicks team being even better because they improve those PF minutes with a really good rookie.
Caseloads wrote:We are going to likely have to take a PF in the draft, obi is averaging 6 points in 14.5 minutes on 41% shooting (he’s a career 48% shooter, so he’s regressed)He averages less than 3 rebounds per game and less than 1 assist per game.
Obi is either misused, a bust or a scrub.
Obi should be at 18 minutes per game and forcing thibs to play him, which he isn’t. He is basically serviceable at this point and you could get the same results with a replacement player at the PF spot from any PF bench player.
He’s not getting any major contract extension here based on those numbers.
Often its the player, or the team and situation, or a combo of both. He should seek minutes elsewhere.
Question how many other teams feel the same way and will give the opportunity and believe he will succeed?
He seems to be shrinking? He is a leaper, and his spot up shooting is respectable, but this game is not what I expected of him. Is this what the team envisioned with him? I thought he’d have more inside influence. We fans touted him as “Amare-esque”.
1. End of college season just ended and no combines to judge him?
2. Draft was in october that year, I forget if teams were able to have individual tryouts?
3. Blame it on RJ.
4. Randle just keeps beasting leaving nothing for the kid.
5. Thibs does not like young players (oops).
Nalod wrote:Caseloads wrote:We are going to likely have to take a PF in the draft, obi is averaging 6 points in 14.5 minutes on 41% shooting (he’s a career 48% shooter, so he’s regressed)He averages less than 3 rebounds per game and less than 1 assist per game.
Obi is either misused, a bust or a scrub.
Obi should be at 18 minutes per game and forcing thibs to play him, which he isn’t. He is basically serviceable at this point and you could get the same results with a replacement player at the PF spot from any PF bench player.
He’s not getting any major contract extension here based on those numbers.
Often its the player, or the team and situation, or a combo of both. He should seek minutes elsewhere.
Question how many other teams feel the same way and will give the opportunity and believe he will succeed?
He seems to be shrinking? He is a leaper, and his spot up shooting is respectable, but this game is not what I expected of him. Is this what the team envisioned with him? I thought he’d have more inside influence. We fans touted him as “Amare-esque”.
1. End of college season just ended and no combines to judge him?
2. Draft was in october that year, I forget if teams were able to have individual tryouts?
3. Blame it on RJ.
4. Randle just keeps beasting leaving nothing for the kid.
5. Thibs does not like young players (oops).
On your last point, we hear Thibs doesn’t like young players often. RJ, IQ, Grimes, Deuce, Sims. Seems like Thibs likes pretty much all of his young players except for Obi if we are being honest. I’m just discouraged by Toppin, especially after the end of last year. I know it was an end-of-year breakout that we see all of the time from players, but it felt like he was really figuring out how to score in the nba. And right now he has no moves or ways to use his athleticism to attack defenses. Knicks front office has made an effort to never have a 3rd PF on the roster, so there is no one pushing Toppin for his 14 mpg. But that’s the front office clearing that path for him, not Thibs liking him enough to keep him in the rotation.
Knixkik wrote:Nalod wrote:Caseloads wrote:We are going to likely have to take a PF in the draft, obi is averaging 6 points in 14.5 minutes on 41% shooting (he’s a career 48% shooter, so he’s regressed)He averages less than 3 rebounds per game and less than 1 assist per game.
Obi is either misused, a bust or a scrub.
Obi should be at 18 minutes per game and forcing thibs to play him, which he isn’t. He is basically serviceable at this point and you could get the same results with a replacement player at the PF spot from any PF bench player.
He’s not getting any major contract extension here based on those numbers.
Often its the player, or the team and situation, or a combo of both. He should seek minutes elsewhere.
Question how many other teams feel the same way and will give the opportunity and believe he will succeed?
He seems to be shrinking? He is a leaper, and his spot up shooting is respectable, but this game is not what I expected of him. Is this what the team envisioned with him? I thought he’d have more inside influence. We fans touted him as “Amare-esque”.
1. End of college season just ended and no combines to judge him?
2. Draft was in october that year, I forget if teams were able to have individual tryouts?
3. Blame it on RJ.
4. Randle just keeps beasting leaving nothing for the kid.
5. Thibs does not like young players (oops).
On your last point, we hear Thibs doesn’t like young players often. RJ, IQ, Grimes, Deuce, Sims. Seems like Thibs likes pretty much all of his young players except for Obi if we are being honest. I’m just discouraged by Toppin, especially after the end of last year. I know it was an end-of-year breakout that we see all of the time from players, but it felt like he was really figuring out how to score in the nba. And right now he has no moves or ways to use his athleticism to attack defenses. Knicks front office has made an effort to never have a 3rd PF on the roster, so there is no one pushing Toppin for his 14 mpg. But that’s the front office clearing that path for him, not Thibs liking him enough to keep him in the rotation.
He is an NBA talent, and as such there is precedence of players on teams who gave up at the end of the year able to put up good numbers. Randle is blocking him. He does not have flexible skill to play another position. Remember “OBI AT CENTER” idea? He does not have the handle for SG, nor the foot speed to defend it.
He’ll end up in dallas were they knicks often go. Just a guess, lol.
Nalod wrote:Caseloads wrote:We are going to likely have to take a PF in the draft, obi is averaging 6 points in 14.5 minutes on 41% shooting (he’s a career 48% shooter, so he’s regressed)He averages less than 3 rebounds per game and less than 1 assist per game.
Obi is either misused, a bust or a scrub.
Obi should be at 18 minutes per game and forcing thibs to play him, which he isn’t. He is basically serviceable at this point and you could get the same results with a replacement player at the PF spot from any PF bench player.
He’s not getting any major contract extension here based on those numbers.
Often its the player, or the team and situation, or a combo of both. He should seek minutes elsewhere.
Question how many other teams feel the same way and will give the opportunity and believe he will succeed?
He seems to be shrinking? He is a leaper, and his spot up shooting is respectable, but this game is not what I expected of him. Is this what the team envisioned with him? I thought he’d have more inside influence. We fans touted him as “Amare-esque”.
1. End of college season just ended and no combines to judge him?
2. Draft was in october that year, I forget if teams were able to have individual tryouts?
3. Blame it on RJ.
4. Randle just keeps beasting leaving nothing for the kid.
5. Thibs does not like young players (oops).
Thats my theory. He was behind the NBA minutes leader, early in his career. My guess is that Obi would develop into a starter on a lottery team. Which can afford to give him the minutes to figure things out.
As well as play in an offense, more suited to his talents. Standing in the corner, is the wrong place for Obi IMO.
Nalod wrote:Knixkik wrote:Nalod wrote:Caseloads wrote:We are going to likely have to take a PF in the draft, obi is averaging 6 points in 14.5 minutes on 41% shooting (he’s a career 48% shooter, so he’s regressed)He averages less than 3 rebounds per game and less than 1 assist per game.
Obi is either misused, a bust or a scrub.
Obi should be at 18 minutes per game and forcing thibs to play him, which he isn’t. He is basically serviceable at this point and you could get the same results with a replacement player at the PF spot from any PF bench player.
He’s not getting any major contract extension here based on those numbers.
Often its the player, or the team and situation, or a combo of both. He should seek minutes elsewhere.
Question how many other teams feel the same way and will give the opportunity and believe he will succeed?
He seems to be shrinking? He is a leaper, and his spot up shooting is respectable, but this game is not what I expected of him. Is this what the team envisioned with him? I thought he’d have more inside influence. We fans touted him as “Amare-esque”.
1. End of college season just ended and no combines to judge him?
2. Draft was in october that year, I forget if teams were able to have individual tryouts?
3. Blame it on RJ.
4. Randle just keeps beasting leaving nothing for the kid.
5. Thibs does not like young players (oops).
On your last point, we hear Thibs doesn’t like young players often. RJ, IQ, Grimes, Deuce, Sims. Seems like Thibs likes pretty much all of his young players except for Obi if we are being honest. I’m just discouraged by Toppin, especially after the end of last year. I know it was an end-of-year breakout that we see all of the time from players, but it felt like he was really figuring out how to score in the nba. And right now he has no moves or ways to use his athleticism to attack defenses. Knicks front office has made an effort to never have a 3rd PF on the roster, so there is no one pushing Toppin for his 14 mpg. But that’s the front office clearing that path for him, not Thibs liking him enough to keep him in the rotation.
He is an NBA talent, and as such there is precedence of players on teams who gave up at the end of the year able to put up good numbers. Randle is blocking him. He does not have flexible skill to play another position. Remember “OBI AT CENTER” idea? He does not have the handle for SG, nor the foot speed to defend it.
He’ll end up in dallas were they knicks often go. Just a guess, lol.
No question Randle is blocking his opportunity. And I’m sure if he’s playing starters minutes he’s averaging 15+ points and 7+ rebounds a game. The concern would be that he’s not a shot blocker, isn’t a good defender at any position, not a great rebounder, has no post moves, and is an improving but still slightly below average outside shooter. I can see him putting up numbers in an offense with LaMelo Ball or Haliburton, but there’s only a couple of teams in the league with creative, pass first guards that have a PF need. The fit would have to be absolutely perfect.
I think Obi is a pretty good player - but he needs rhythm, consistency. There's not a lot many players can do with 12-15 mpg of playing time. He has some games where he can get get 10-11 pts, some where he gets 2. Honestly 6ppg in his minutes is not bad production. The problem is in his role behind Randle, his main function is shooting 3s. If he makes 2 of 3 he takes, he has a great night, if he misses them all, he's a useless player. He doesn't have a lot of opportunity to be impressive within the band of the role he is given.
The only chance he would have had to be more than his role here is if we showed a willingness to play him alongside Randle, but we haven't done that. Its likely to never happen now.
Given we are 100% committed to Randle, his best value probably would have been in a trade, but given how well Obi played at the end of last year and how inconsistently Randle played last year, you couldn't realistically try to "sell high" on him this offseason. Then by the time we let things play out, it has driven his value low.
Caseloads wrote:We are going to likely have to take a PF in the draft, obi is averaging 6 points in 14.5 minutes on 41% shooting (he’s a career 48% shooter, so he’s regressed)He averages less than 3 rebounds per game and less than 1 assist per game.
Obi is either misused, a bust or a scrub.
Obi should be at 18 minutes per game and forcing thibs to play him, which he isn’t. He is basically serviceable at this point and you could get the same results with a replacement player at the PF spot from any PF bench player.
He’s not getting any major contract extension here based on those numbers.
Kid has talent. He will excel with a bigger role. Problem is, he won't get the chance at that bigger role, anywhere, if he does not learn how to impact the game in more ways than just three point shots and occasional dunk.
HofstraBBall wrote:Caseloads wrote:We are going to likely have to take a PF in the draft, obi is averaging 6 points in 14.5 minutes on 41% shooting (he’s a career 48% shooter, so he’s regressed)He averages less than 3 rebounds per game and less than 1 assist per game.
Obi is either misused, a bust or a scrub.
Obi should be at 18 minutes per game and forcing thibs to play him, which he isn’t. He is basically serviceable at this point and you could get the same results with a replacement player at the PF spot from any PF bench player.
He’s not getting any major contract extension here based on those numbers.
Kid has talent. He will excel with a bigger role. Problem is, he won't get the chance at that bigger role, anywhere, if he does not learn how to impact the game in more ways than just three point shots and occasional dunk.
Hope we keep him around but at low cost.
Not for nothing but it seemed like Randle was doing in-game load management, he barely was into it against Charlotte and didn't seem to break a sweat.
He should have sat and Obi should have gotten those minutes.
But Obi also has to get some rebounds. I keep looking up and it seems like every game it's 13+ minutes and 1 rebound.
martin wrote:But Obi also has to get some rebounds. I keep looking up and it seems like every game it's 13+ minutes and 1 rebound.
I don't disagree, but if his role on offense is to camp out in the corner and shoot 3's he's never in much of a position to do that.
VDesai wrote:martin wrote:But Obi also has to get some rebounds. I keep looking up and it seems like every game it's 13+ minutes and 1 rebound.
I don't disagree, but if his role on offense is to camp out in the corner and shoot 3's he's never in much of a position to do that.
That's an excuse that fails over and over and over again and gets old for me. And you are only talking offensive rebounds.
Obi has got to figure out how to rebound the ball. He ain't sitting on the 3 point line when he plays defense.
And not for nothing, but guy like Grimes is also sitting at the 3point line but he knows how to mix it up and get to rim. Obi cannot be 1 dimensional. He needs to figure this out.
Obi really needs to be much more aggressive. He plays way too passively. Last night perfect example, Knicks had a 3 on 1 break. Obi goes to the left 3 pt line and gets the ball, wide open 3. He hesitates defender comes out , Obi makes a deke towards the basket and then takes a rushed 3pter and misses. He should have taken the original wide open 3 pter. He often gets the ball at the 3 pt line, rarely takes it to the basket and instead just passes it on.
martin wrote:VDesai wrote:martin wrote:But Obi also has to get some rebounds. I keep looking up and it seems like every game it's 13+ minutes and 1 rebound.
I don't disagree, but if his role on offense is to camp out in the corner and shoot 3's he's never in much of a position to do that.
That's an excuse that fails over and over and over again and gets old for me. And you are only talking offensive rebounds.
Obi has got to figure out how to rebound the ball. He ain't sitting on the 3 point line when he plays defense.
Im not disagreeing with you at all, just saying that spatially he's never really in the frame to get the rebound. I'm not sure I can easily just say "Obi doesn't know how to box out."
I think he has two faults when it comes to rebounding
-On the defensive glass, rather than crashing it, he's trying to get out on the fast break for a go ahead pass. That means he's not gonna rebound, but his fast breaking/finishing does give us the opportunity for easy points on occasion.
-On the offensive glass, he's either in the corner and can't make it to the board, or when he does he's running in for the tip/follow and not really thinking about cleaning up a rebound or kicking back out.
Both of the above are either player tendencies (seems likely), or it could be a product of what he's coached to do (maybe- because if they see these as his strengths, they may be asking him to lean into them).
That said his rebound rates are still better than like Tim Thomas, Bargnani, Eddy Curry....former Knicks and pound for pound some of the worst rebounders ever...
VDesai wrote:martin wrote:VDesai wrote:martin wrote:But Obi also has to get some rebounds. I keep looking up and it seems like every game it's 13+ minutes and 1 rebound.
I don't disagree, but if his role on offense is to camp out in the corner and shoot 3's he's never in much of a position to do that.
That's an excuse that fails over and over and over again and gets old for me. And you are only talking offensive rebounds.
Obi has got to figure out how to rebound the ball. He ain't sitting on the 3 point line when he plays defense.
Im not disagreeing with you at all, just saying that spatially he's never really in the frame to get the rebound. I'm not sure I can easily just say "Obi doesn't know how to box out."
I think he has two faults when it comes to rebounding
-On the defensive glass, rather than crashing it, he's trying to get out on the fast break for a go ahead pass. That means he's not gonna rebound, but his fast breaking/finishing does give us the opportunity for easy points on occasion.
-On the offensive glass, he's either in the corner and can't make it to the board, or when he does he's running in for the tip/follow and not really thinking about cleaning up a rebound or kicking back out.
Both of the above are either player tendencies (seems likely), or it could be a product of what he's coached to do (maybe- because if they see these as his strengths, they may be asking him to lean into them).
That said his rebound rates are still better than like Tim Thomas, Bargnani, Eddy Curry....former Knicks and pound for pound some of the worst rebounders ever...
Yeah. I think some guys just got it and some don't. He does not have a nose for the ball. I have zero clue about his role in college but his numbers there also seemed low for his position and potential.
He does not seem strong to me for his frame.
VDesai wrote:martin wrote:But Obi also has to get some rebounds. I keep looking up and it seems like every game it's 13+ minutes and 1 rebound.
I don't disagree, but if his role on offense is to camp out in the corner and shoot 3's he's never in much of a position to do that.
That only accounts for offensive rebounds. On defense he leaks (cherry picks) on every shot, so there’s no defensive rebounding. This only works about once per game and typically accounts for his non-3pt FG each game.
BigRedDog wrote:Obi really needs to be much more aggressive. He plays way too passively. Last night perfect example, Knicks had a 3 on 1 break. Obi goes to the left 3 pt line and gets the ball, wide open 3. He hesitates defender comes out , Obi makes a deke towards the basket and then takes a rushed 3pter and misses. He should have taken the original wide open 3 pter. He often gets the ball at the 3 pt line, rarely takes it to the basket and instead just passes it on.
I think this is it for me with Obi. Wasn't he the National Player of the Year? Or at that level in college?
I don't think I've seen that level of accomplishment as a player and then who came into the NBA like he didn't even want to shoot the ball. Crazy
martin wrote:BigRedDog wrote:Obi really needs to be much more aggressive. He plays way too passively. Last night perfect example, Knicks had a 3 on 1 break. Obi goes to the left 3 pt line and gets the ball, wide open 3. He hesitates defender comes out , Obi makes a deke towards the basket and then takes a rushed 3pter and misses. He should have taken the original wide open 3 pter. He often gets the ball at the 3 pt line, rarely takes it to the basket and instead just passes it on.
I think this is it for me with Obi. Wasn't he the National Player of the Year? Or at that level in college?
I don't think I've seen that level of accomplishment as a player and then who came into the NBA like he didn't even want to shoot the ball. Crazy
Do you guys realize that 5 out of the last 12 National Players of the year have been on the Knicks? 
