Knicks · We will win this series!! But if we don't... (page 1)

We will win at home and take the next game in Miami. Several of the Heat no name shooters will come back to earth once they feel some true pressure.
Thus far, we have had three games in which the Knicks have not played well. Having multiple guys that can't hit open looks. We have JR, IQ, Grimes, JB playing at a lower level than during the year. Not exactly putting pressure on these lesser known names. If our guys turn it around and start making shots, that will change.

IF we don't turn it around... think we need an upgrade at SG, a true Number ONE and last but not least, an assistant coach that pushes more ball movement.

1) Love Grimes but we need a guy with has more experience and can flat out shoot. Having a second year guy backed up by a hustle guy, who struggles shooting, is not what you need from your SG spot if you want to go deep in the playoffs.

2) We need a true number one who is a next level player and relishes high pressure situations. Someone who can overcome all the defensive adjustments. Hate to say it but we did not need DM to beat the Cavs but we needed DM to beat the Heat or other higher level teams. Think JB was that during year but against the top teams defensive attention, he is slightly limited physically.

3)Our offense is one dimensional. Always played for good coaches who preached attacking the weak side with ball movement. The theory being that you can't have success trying to score against the first defensive position of the defense. (Strong side) You have to attack the strong side, get the defense to converge then swing the ball around and attack the weak side. If you look at the Heat, they do that extremely well. Drive to strong side, kick out, then swing one or two passes to open players. We have JB, Randle and RJ, our big three, who are called to Iso and attack the strong side. As much as Randle turns the ball over, he is actually the only one out of the three who looks to kick it out to start ball rotation. We need an offensive minded assistant coach who preaches that mindset and keeps the ball from sticking. While still keeping Thibs tough defensive approach.
Will add that despite my call for better ball movement, coaches can't make the shots. The Knicks have shot terribly throughout the playoffs. So too much emphasis on what coaches can do to change our recent outcome would be ignoring that.

Imho, we need the above if we want to make deep runs in the playoffs.
As well as ALL our remaining players to improve their many weaknesses.

100% spot on. Solid assessment.

We are a more talented team and capable of beating them 3 straight. But right now the mental switch is flipped. The Heat believe they can push us around, beat us to loose balls, and execute. When we are scoring, they match every basket. When we are clamping down defensively, they clamp down on us harder. We are playing like a team that is overwhelmed and can't hang. Something has to change mentally.

Ok Hofstra - I’m going with you on this.

If the Knicks want to win they need to just play basketball. They need to stop grinding, everything doesn’t need to be a grind. The Knicks don’t handle pressure well it’s ingrained in Knicks mentality. The Knicks fans are so nervous I wouldn’t be shocked if it doesn’t infect the players, they walk into the building nervous. When the Knicks make quick decisions they do well. They need to play reactionary basketball. You can’t get into a grind out with Miami they do it better than the Knicks. The Knicks might be better off playing Obi at the center position and stretch the floor giving Brunson more room to operate pull Adebyo away from the basket. Thins got to be more creative than what he is giving. He is getting out classes by Spoelstra he needs to think outside of the box what he is doing is absolutely futility. Knicks need to go SSOL get the best shot ASAP and put it up.

VDesai wrote:We are a more talented team and capable of beating them 3 straight. But right now the mental switch is flipped. The Heat believe they can push us around, beat us to loose balls, and execute. When we are scoring, they match every basket. When we are clamping down defensively, they clamp down on us harder. We are playing like a team that is overwhelmed and can't hang. Something has to change mentally.

Before the series I honestly thought we’d win with home court. Heck I thought we’d win in 5.

Here is what happened.

They figured out how to defend us— very similar to how Atlanta did 2 years ago. They have the best player on both teams. We have to guard their 5 man so they can spread the floor better and they are great ball movers. The net differential at the 5 position cancels out a huge chunk at other position. They have a center who can score— we do not. They use the 5 position and when hart is in there his guy to hedge off and swarm. They put great ball pressure on Brunson.We played good in Miami game 4 but still soundly beat.I can’t say anything about injuries as they are missing Herro. I’m highly dissapointed but will take it one game at a time

VDesai wrote:We are a more talented team and capable of beating them 3 straight. But right now the mental switch is flipped. The Heat believe have shown they can push us around, beat us to loose balls, and execute. When we are scoring, they match every basket. When we are clamping down defensively, they clamp down on us harder. We are playing like a team that is overwhelmed and can't hang. Something has to change mentally.

Fixed.

VDesai wrote:We are a more talented team and capable of beating them 3 straight. But right now the mental switch is flipped. The Heat believe they can push us around, beat us to loose balls, and execute. When we are scoring, they match every basket. When we are clamping down defensively, they clamp down on us harder. We are playing like a team that is overwhelmed and can't hang. Something has to change mentally.

Think this is the take anytime a team loses. Team fought hard. Came out of the half hitting everything. Problem is we did not make any shots in the first half or in 4th. When that happens, fans look for other deeper narratives. Like guys were not hustling, refs hating us and so on. Make more open shots and perception of things you mentioned is completely transformed.

HofstraBBall wrote:We will win at home and take the next game in Miami. Several of the Heat no name shooters will come back to earth once they feel some true pressure.
Thus far, we have had three games in which the Knicks have not played well. Having multiple guys that can't hit open looks. We have JR, IQ, Grimes, JB playing at a lower level than during the year. Not exactly putting pressure on these lesser known names. If our guys turn it around and start making shots, that will change.

IF we don't turn it around... think we need an upgrade at SG, a true Number ONE and last but not least, an assistant coach that pushes more ball movement.

1) Love Grimes but we need a guy with has more experience and can flat out shoot. Having a second year guy backed up by a hustle guy, who struggles shooting, is not what you need from your SG spot if you want to go deep in the playoffs.

2) We need a true number one who is a next level player and relishes high pressure situations. Someone who can overcome all the defensive adjustments. Hate to say it but we did not need DM to beat the Cavs but we needed DM to beat the Heat or other higher level teams. Think JB was that during year but against the top teams defensive attention, he is slightly limited physically.

3)Our offense is one dimensional. Always played for good coaches who preached attacking the weak side with ball movement. The theory being that you can't have success trying to score against the first defensive position of the defense. (Strong side) You have to attack the strong side, get the defense to converge then swing the ball around and attack the weak side. If you look at the Heat, they do that extremely well. Drive to strong side, kick out, then swing one or two passes to open players. We have JB, Randle and RJ, our big three, who are called to Iso and attack the strong side. As much as Randle turns the ball over, he is actually the only one out of the three who looks to kick it out to start ball rotation. We need an offensive minded assistant coach who preaches that mindset and keeps the ball from sticking. While still keeping Thibs tough defensive approach.
Will add that despite my call for better ball movement, coaches can't make the shots. The Knicks have shot terribly throughout the playoffs. So too much emphasis on what coaches can do to change our recent outcome would be ignoring that.

Imho, we need the above if we want to make deep runs in the playoffs.
As well as ALL our remaining players to improve their many weaknesses.

So Randle gets a free pass from you. Difficult to take this completely seriously with you review omitting the most important player on our team, Critique of Randle. It's hard to believe you can break down every player and coaching and leave out Randle. Please carry on though. As you have posted in other threads, anyone who blames Randle doesn't know anything about basketball.

Moonangie wrote:

VDesai wrote:We are a more talented team and capable of beating them 3 straight. But right now the mental switch is flipped. The Heat believe have shown they can push us around, beat us to loose balls, and execute. When we are scoring, they match every basket. When we are clamping down defensively, they clamp down on us harder. We are playing like a team that is overwhelmed and can't hang. Something has to change mentally.

Fixed.

They are focussed on stopping Randle and JB.
Our three point shooting in 28% for the series.
JB and JR have to trust their shooters.
IQ, Grimes, Hart and RJ have to make .ore shots.

I look for IQ and Grimes to be the key.

On the grimes topic for a minute. Grimes has underperformed offensively no question. Obviously his skill set is still useful though. My thought is this. I believe a package around Barrett, Rose and picks for LaVine is the way to go if it’s possible. LaVine starts at SF with grimes at SG, but Hart is essentially the SF. A lineup of Brunson, LaVine, Hart, Randle and Mitch/ Hartenstein to close games is really good. Grimes and Hart for 48 mins covers the opposing teams best perimeter player.

Knixkik wrote:On the grimes topic for a minute. Grimes has underperformed offensively no question. Obviously his skill set is still useful though. My thought is this. I believe a package around Barrett, Rose and picks for LaVine is the way to go if it’s possible. LaVine starts at SF with grimes at SG, but Hart is essentially the SF. A lineup of Brunson, LaVine, Hart, Randle and Mitch/ Hartenstein to close games is really good. Grimes and Hart for 48 mins covers the opposing teams best perimeter player.

Zach would be even worse at SF fulltime than RJ. Grimes is a good defender, but not enough to make for Randle, Lavine and Brunson. I think Grimes would have to go if you make that trade.

We should have been swept and got lucky Butler missed game two. To think these four games were a fluke and we are still the better and more talented team is foolish.

These are Grimes first playoffs so he get's a pass from me. He will learn and be better next time.

Yes, we do need a true number one or at the very least a reliable co-star with Brunson. Randle has proven he isn't that guy.

Our offense would look a lot better if we had reliable shooters. If you look at the stats, we are getting enough open and wide open threes. We just do not have the personnel who can hit them. We need to upgrade this skillset. And the inexperience and Brunson's injury has hurt too. We're not seeing Brunson cook one on one as much.

Bottom line I think we ran into a team that is flat out better and we've reached our ceiling this season.

HofstraBBall wrote:

Moonangie wrote:

VDesai wrote:We are a more talented team and capable of beating them 3 straight. But right now the mental switch is flipped. The Heat believe have shown they can push us around, beat us to loose balls, and execute. When we are scoring, they match every basket. When we are clamping down defensively, they clamp down on us harder. We are playing like a team that is overwhelmed and can't hang. Something has to change mentally.

Fixed.

They are focussed on stopping Randle and JB.
Our three point shooting in 28% for the series.
JB and JR have to trust their shooters.
IQ, Grimes, Hart and RJ have to make .ore shots.

I look for IQ and Grimes to be the key.

Where do you come up with this BS? Did you even watch the game. Vincent 1 on 1 with Brunson. Adabayo 1 on 1 with Randle. Once in awhile Butler Picked up Randle 1 on 1. If either got Strus switched onto them it was green light to the basket.

Rookie wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

Moonangie wrote:

VDesai wrote:We are a more talented team and capable of beating them 3 straight. But right now the mental switch is flipped. The Heat believe have shown they can push us around, beat us to loose balls, and execute. When we are scoring, they match every basket. When we are clamping down defensively, they clamp down on us harder. We are playing like a team that is overwhelmed and can't hang. Something has to change mentally.

Fixed.

They are focussed on stopping Randle and JB.
Our three point shooting in 28% for the series.
JB and JR have to trust their shooters.
IQ, Grimes, Hart and RJ have to make .ore shots.

I look for IQ and Grimes to be the key.

Where do you come up with this BS? Did you even watch the game. Vincent 1 on 1 with Brunson. Adabayo 1 on 1 with Randle. Once in awhile Butler Picked up Randle 1 on 1. If either got Strus switched onto them it was green light to the basket.

What's the Bullshit ?

Shitty Shooting Percentage?
Miami focussed on stopping JB and JR?
IQ, Grimes, Hart and RJ needing to make more thread?

You went on a rant on Randle and JB covering cats. Did I mention that anywhere in my post?

You claim I am not holding Randle accountable. Mentioned him not playing at level he played all year. Mentioned him being a poor three point shooter and needing to stick to bully ball. Mentioned how he is not a ball handler and needs to make better decisions to lower his TO's. But yeah you read my posts.
Problem is, fans like to pontificate some bullshit without taking simple facts into account.
They want to just blame and come up with simplistic narratives.
You clearly missed my main one above. 28% shooting. And YES , Randle and JB contributed to that.

The more I watch our team in the playoffs (even the Cavs series) - the more I am convinced that Thibs's offensive style is our biggest issue. Yes Randle has played poorly, RJ also... we could go down the list. When you lose to Heat players that most of us could barely name before the series started - you should question how/why they are so effective. Gabe and Max move the ball, cut, hustle non-stop which makes them harder to defend. Yes they can also shoot well and seem very skilled and quick at reading the defense.

This Brunson, Randle and RJ taking turns going 1 on 1 offense is why we are so easy to beat. Even if we upgraded and surrounded those 3 with better outside shooters... it would still be easier to defend because everyone knows the flow. Add to that Randle and the majority of players (not named Brunson) play tight and don't handle pressure well...

As much as I've complained about Randle the past few seasons - it really comes back to Thibs. I give him credit for trying to play more younger players and shifting hit rotations... even improving on game to game sdjustments. Spolestra makes in game adjustments and we never seem to know how to pivot in response.

Maybe we squeak out one more win and even though I despite the Heat - I have to admit they are actually more fun to watch as they play more teamball, hustle more and play their roles really well.

Knixkik wrote:On the grimes topic for a minute. Grimes has underperformed offensively no question. Obviously his skill set is still useful though. My thought is this. I believe a package around Barrett, Rose and picks for LaVine is the way to go if it’s possible. LaVine starts at SF with grimes at SG, but Hart is essentially the SF. A lineup of Brunson, LaVine, Hart, Randle and Mitch/ Hartenstein to close games is really good. Grimes and Hart for 48 mins covers the opposing teams best perimeter player.

Despite wanting an upgrade at SG prior to trade deadline, I still want to see how Grimes develops. My angle was that he was not ready short term for the playoffs due to lack of experience and proven track record. I am cool with seeing how he develops. But maybe up until the trade deadline.

Feel Lavine would be too costly of a piece that may not fit. Right now we have JB, RJ and Randle that play their best holding on to the ball and taking a lot of shots. Think RJ is the one I would like to see traded out but afraid I am undervaluing his abilities. Trading JB is not going to happen. Despite high usage and having blinders on sometimes, he is money under pressure. Randle can be traded but believe he represents decent value for an All Star who averages a double double and brings some physicality. Like IQ, like Grimes, Like Obi and like JHart but think we need more shooting. I am open to any cost effective upgrades that can shoot the ball and play some defense. Just not into bashing a player, ignoring their strengths and calling for them to be thrown out without a feasible replacement.

HofstraBBall wrote:

Rookie wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

Moonangie wrote:

VDesai wrote:We are a more talented team and capable of beating them 3 straight. But right now the mental switch is flipped. The Heat believe have shown they can push us around, beat us to loose balls, and execute. When we are scoring, they match every basket. When we are clamping down defensively, they clamp down on us harder. We are playing like a team that is overwhelmed and can't hang. Something has to change mentally.

Fixed.

They are focussed on stopping Randle and JB.
Our three point shooting in 28% for the series.
JB and JR have to trust their shooters.
IQ, Grimes, Hart and RJ have to make .ore shots.

I look for IQ and Grimes to be the key.

Where do you come up with this BS? Did you even watch the game. Vincent 1 on 1 with Brunson. Adabayo 1 on 1 with Randle. Once in awhile Butler Picked up Randle 1 on 1. If either got Strus switched onto them it was green light to the basket.

What's the Bullshit ?

Shitty Shooting Percentage?
Miami focussed on stopping JB and JR?
IQ, Grimes, Hart and RJ needing to make more thread?

You went on a rant on Randle and JB covering cats. Did I mention that anywhere in my post?

You claim I am not holding Randle accountable. Mentioned him not playing at level he played all year. Mentioned him being a poor three point shooter and needing to stick to bully ball. Mentioned how he is not a ball handler and needs to make better decisions to lower his TO's. But yeah you read my posts.
Problem is, fans like to pontificate some bullshit without taking simple facts into account.
They want to just blame and come up with simplistic narratives.
You clearly missed my main one above. 28% shooting. And YES , Randle and JB contributed to that.

Miami did not focus on stopping JB and JR. They were able to guard them 1 on 1 like I said above. Randle is just dogging it and his effort on D is killing us. I hate having to say sh*t like this but he doesn't get a free pass. I can forgive anything except lack of effort. This is why getting to the playoffs is so important and we wouldn't be here without Randle but WTF this guy needs to show up and especially give effort on D and stop f*cking up defensive rotations. Miami is literally toying with us with ball movement.

And yes, we need to shoot better. At least make open shots and free throws. Less turnovers would also be helpful. These things are all very obvious.

Rookie wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

Moonangie wrote:

VDesai wrote:We are a more talented team and capable of beating them 3 straight. But right now the mental switch is flipped. The Heat believe have shown they can push us around, beat us to loose balls, and execute. When we are scoring, they match every basket. When we are clamping down defensively, they clamp down on us harder. We are playing like a team that is overwhelmed and can't hang. Something has to change mentally.

Fixed.

They are focussed on stopping Randle and JB.
Our three point shooting in 28% for the series.
JB and JR have to trust their shooters.
IQ, Grimes, Hart and RJ have to make .ore shots.

I look for IQ and Grimes to be the key.

Where do you come up with this BS? Did you even watch the game. Vincent 1 on 1 with Brunson. Adabayo 1 on 1 with Randle. Once in awhile Butler Picked up Randle 1 on 1. If either got Strus switched onto them it was green light to the basket.

Don't think you're watching the same games that I am. Heat game plan is obviously to wear Brunson down. Vincent/Stus/Martin take turns harrying him or in ball denial D from the full court and then the double rotations come soon after mid-court. In many cases this defense is not only causing him to tire, but also limiting his ability to get into/operate in the paint and also causing the Knicks half court set to start with only about 10 seconds left on the clock. It's actually a pretty astutely thought out defense by Spo.....stop Brunson and you essentially stop the Knicks.

With this defense and IQ being ineffective and now injured, the Knicks entire offense - predicated on Brunson penetrating and operating in the paint is out of sync and essentially reverting to more ISO and doubles on the ball (i.e. mostly Randle). Even when they manage to rotate and find the open look - the open shots have not been falling with any consistency.

In last night's game we saw a bit more of Brunson deferring to guys like Barrett to take the ball to half-court. Unfortunately the best solution which is now likely out of the question, was to probably pair Brunson with IQ and have Brunson play off ball until the half court offense gets set. Both IQ and Brunson could have also taken turns at penetrating to try and confuse the D.

foosballnick wrote:

Rookie wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

Moonangie wrote:

VDesai wrote:We are a more talented team and capable of beating them 3 straight. But right now the mental switch is flipped. The Heat believe have shown they can push us around, beat us to loose balls, and execute. When we are scoring, they match every basket. When we are clamping down defensively, they clamp down on us harder. We are playing like a team that is overwhelmed and can't hang. Something has to change mentally.

Fixed.

They are focussed on stopping Randle and JB.
Our three point shooting in 28% for the series.
JB and JR have to trust their shooters.
IQ, Grimes, Hart and RJ have to make .ore shots.

I look for IQ and Grimes to be the key.

Where do you come up with this BS? Did you even watch the game. Vincent 1 on 1 with Brunson. Adabayo 1 on 1 with Randle. Once in awhile Butler Picked up Randle 1 on 1. If either got Strus switched onto them it was green light to the basket.

Don't think you're watching the same games that I am. Heat game plan is obviously to wear Brunson down. Vincent/Stus/Martin take turns harrying him or in ball denial D from the full court and then the double rotations come soon after mid-court. In many cases this defense is not only causing him to tire, but also limiting his ability to get into/operate in the paint and also causing the Knicks half court set to start with only about 10 seconds left on the clock. It's actually a pretty astutely thought out defense by Spo.....stop Brunson and you essentially stop the Knicks.

With this defense and IQ being ineffective and now injured, the Knicks entire offense - predicated on Brunson penetrating and operating in the paint is out of sync and essentially reverting to more ISO and doubles on the ball (i.e. mostly Randle). Even when they manage to rotate and find the open look - the open shots have not been falling with any consistency.

In last night's game we saw a bit more of Brunson deferring to guys like Barrett to take the ball to half-court. Unfortunately the best solution which is now likely out of the question, was to probably pair Brunson with IQ and have Brunson play off ball until the half court offense gets set. Both IQ and Brunson could have also taken turns at penetrating to try and confuse the D.

Strus is not a good defender. Brunson would eat his lunch. The heat haven't had to double Brunson. Vincent is a pest and capable of guarding him 1 on 1. They didn't trap more than a few times in game 4 so not sure why you are inferring that come as soon as Brunson crosses mid court. The only reason they did try and trap is because Martin could not guard Brunson at all. Martin is also the guy who intentionally jumped under Brunson when he was shooting the 3. He's a dirty MF and Brunson was going to work on him.

For the most part Mitch not being able to draw a big out of the paint is a big problem and if he isn't rebounding and they are fouling him he isn't very effective. Maybe the Knicks need to go small and spread the floor. It was effective in game 2.

HofstraBBall wrote:

Knixkik wrote:On the grimes topic for a minute. Grimes has underperformed offensively no question. Obviously his skill set is still useful though. My thought is this. I believe a package around Barrett, Rose and picks for LaVine is the way to go if it’s possible. LaVine starts at SF with grimes at SG, but Hart is essentially the SF. A lineup of Brunson, LaVine, Hart, Randle and Mitch/ Hartenstein to close games is really good. Grimes and Hart for 48 mins covers the opposing teams best perimeter player.

Despite wanting an upgrade at SG prior to trade deadline, I still want to see how Grimes develops. My angle was that he was not ready short term for the playoffs due to lack of experience and proven track record. I am cool with seeing how he develops. But maybe up until the trade deadline.

Feel Lavine would be too costly of a piece that may not fit. Right now we have JB, RJ and Randle that play their best holding on to the ball and taking a lot of shots. Think RJ is the one I would like to see traded out but afraid I am undervaluing his abilities. Trading JB is not going to happen. Despite high usage and having blinders on sometimes, he is money under pressure. Randle can be traded but believe he represents decent value for an All Star who averages a double double and brings some physicality. Like IQ, like Grimes, Like Obi and like JHart but think we need more shooting. I am open to any cost effective upgrades that can shoot the ball and play some defense. Just not into bashing a player, ignoring their strengths and calling for them to be thrown out without a feasible replacement.

If Bulls were interested in a Randle + filler for Lavine we could upgrade our wings with Grimes and Lavine (defense and offense) and keep almost the same production Randle provided. We would def need more rebounding though - as Obi seems more and more like a 3 due to his limited rebounded and toughness. We could then use RJ (and Obi/picks) in a OG or M.Bridges + Cam Johnson type of deal. Idea would be to have 3-4 solid wings to pair with Brunson and a Mitch/Hartenstein type of big man.

Much easier to fill out the roster when you have 3-4 versatile/2way wings.