LivingLegend wrote:Chandler wrote:LivingLegend wrote:While I’m at it what teams not wearing blue & orange could use a shot blocking defensive anchor with butter for fingers, zero offensive game and moves like he’s 45? Plus he’s likable 
I don't think Mitchell has butter fingers at all. His first few years his hands were great. I think the issue is that they never ever throw it to him anymore even for lobs so he's caught by surprise.
Come on Chandler - you can’t seriously believe Mitch has good hands.
He literally fumbles 50% of the balls thrown to him - add in fact he can’t score outside 1” or do anything outside of hand the ball,off on the perimeter and you have a legit NON option on offense.
I seriously think he at least had great hands. He used to catch everything lobbed at him. He was snagging rebounds and getting balls off floor
this past year, I'll grant, was different. Either it is an anticipation thing, or maybe he needs some Lasik surgery.
martin wrote:KnickDanger wrote:martin wrote:KnickDanger wrote:I would think at this point the notion of emptying the cupboard for a “star” would have faded. So you trade everyone and everything except Brunson for Emblid or whomever - does a team of Brunson, Emblid or whomever plus I don’t know - McBride,I hart, and a bunch of 10 day contracts get us further? Just seems ridiculous to me. And tell me what assets we get to keep in such a trade without daydreaming.
Right. That's why I think the Knicks will most likely make trades around the edges for the next year or so unless something utterly wild happens and becomes available
Knicks just had a huge internal development year that turned out well (especially and obviously with the addition of Brunson). Wouldn't be surprised of more of the same.
No need to go back to the quick fix philosophy which destroyed us for decades.
Yessir
I think they will not chase someone, but they could be opportunistic. SO if some star starts grumbling they at least have the asserts to play the game, and they can play from strength because staying the course w incremental adds and development is a serious path too (see Exhibit Nuggets)
Panos wrote:Chandler wrote:
I think they will not chase someone, but they could be opportunistic. SO if some star starts grumbling they at least have the asserts to play the game, and they can play from strength because staying the course w incremental adds and development is a serious path too (see Exhibit Nuggets)
Hold on. Are you
OR
?
I guess no love for Wilson Chandler
Philc1 wrote:Panos wrote:Chandler wrote:I think they will not chase someone, but they could be opportunistic. SO if some star starts grumbling they at least have the asserts to play the game, and they can play from strength because staying the course w incremental adds and development is a serious path too (see Exhibit Nuggets)
Hold on. Are you
OR
?
I guess no love for Wilson Chandler
Not since Mr. Earl left.
Where is his ass anyway? He was a cheerleader when they sucked and now disappeared
read that teams might be interested in the dude that when he starts aves 20 pts a game and fits into a fast pace team.
Like PHX, or Sac.
The Very Obi Toppin!!!
Mitch, Obi, EF, IQ or Grimes, a protected 1st For Ayton and Shamet.
A front line of Ayton, Randle and RJ, with JB is intriguing. Its the type of consolidating trade that intrigues.
What does a multi tool type player like Ayton do to make life easier for the rest of the team? Mitch is a rim runner and limited.
Love the dude and his play vs. Clev was epic. Just how far can we go unless he can fix his FT's, the butter fingers, and a floater at least?
My take with most coaching moves is to try to keep teams together. Monty did not love Ayton and perhaps Vogel can do better.
In Philly Nurse is part of keeping Harden there? Perhaps Harden objected to Doc. Maybe Harden just wants to have fun, party, get paid, and hang in Houston.
Perhaps there is a deal with KAT? Randles contract and production is pretty damn strong. he is an all NBA Too. KAT plays some at the 5 and obi gets more minutes? We extend Isiah Hart also?
So many variations of change to be had. Randle won't make 30 mil on his deal in any season for three more years. For an all star/All NBA thats a damn attractive thing. Maybe you do Siakim?
Or keep Jules!!!!
I'd rather leave IQ and Grimes out and let them keep Shamet. Knicks are actually a little thin at the PG spot. I think they can get by with Hart handling those duties for a bit but if one of IQ or Brunson is out, it puts a lot of pressure on the other one, as we saw vs. Boston and Miami.
Thinking along same lines Nalod/Andrew.....
Ayton has been the big most on my mind - thinking about the off-season.
I think he's being underrated though not sure how Thibs or front office would think about him.
I had already looked up trades for both Ayton/Shamet but my thinking was just Mitch/IQ/EF for those 2.
Ayton actually give us a viable 2 way center, Shamet can help with shooting and in theory we could sign a DiVincenzo to replace some of IQ ball handling.
Brunson/DiVincenzo/Deuce
Grimes/Shamet
RJ/Hart
Randle/Obi
Ayton/Hart
LivingLegend wrote:Thinking along same lines Nalod/Andrew.....Ayton has been the big most on my mind - thinking about the off-season.
I think he's being underrated though not sure how Thibs or front office would think about him.
I had already looked up trades for both Ayton/Shamet but my thinking was just Mitch/IQ/EF for those 2.
Ayton actually give us a viable 2 way center, Shamet can help with shooting and in theory we could sign a DiVincenzo to replace some of IQ ball handling.
Brunson/DiVincenzo/Deuce
Grimes/Shamet
RJ/Hart
Randle/Obi
Ayton/Hart
I still think that Mitchell Robinson is better for this team than Ayton. Every time they go head to head, Robinson takes his lunch.
Im not sure how the FO thinks about Randle's playoff performance but if they truly believe his poor play if caused by the injuries then i guess he is not going anywhere but if they decide to go a different direction, can they trade both Randle and RJ for OG and Siakam after they trade mitch for ayton? Randle is a better offensive player than Siakam but Siakam gives more on defense. OG is a much better player than RJ, more consistent but RJ still has tons of potential. Siakam, OG and Ayton are still young. They knicks will still have a young core. Sign DiVincenzo and bring in Rokas.
Will that team be better than the team that just finished the season?
gradyandrew wrote:LivingLegend wrote:Thinking along same lines Nalod/Andrew.....Ayton has been the big most on my mind - thinking about the off-season.
I think he's being underrated though not sure how Thibs or front office would think about him.
I had already looked up trades for both Ayton/Shamet but my thinking was just Mitch/IQ/EF for those 2.
Ayton actually give us a viable 2 way center, Shamet can help with shooting and in theory we could sign a DiVincenzo to replace some of IQ ball handling.
Brunson/DiVincenzo/Deuce
Grimes/Shamet
RJ/Hart
Randle/Obi
Ayton/Hart
I still think that Mitchell Robinson is better for this team than Ayton. Every time they go head to head, Robinson takes his lunch.
On top of that, the reason you don't trade for a guy like Ayton is the new CBA. There is now a 2nd cap "Apron" about $17.5M above the luxury tax threshold (i.e. 2nd Apron would be $181M in 2023). Teams that reach the 2nd Apron will be severely penalized. On top of luxury tax penalties...no mid level exception, no acquiring players on the buyout market, no trading cash, no ability to take in more salary than sent out in a trade. It will become increasingly important to have cost effective guys on the roster who play to their salary level. Ayton at $34M is not worth it IMO when compared to Mitch at $14M.
foosballnick wrote:gradyandrew wrote:LivingLegend wrote:Thinking along same lines Nalod/Andrew.....Ayton has been the big most on my mind - thinking about the off-season.
I think he's being underrated though not sure how Thibs or front office would think about him.
I had already looked up trades for both Ayton/Shamet but my thinking was just Mitch/IQ/EF for those 2.
Ayton actually give us a viable 2 way center, Shamet can help with shooting and in theory we could sign a DiVincenzo to replace some of IQ ball handling.
Brunson/DiVincenzo/Deuce
Grimes/Shamet
RJ/Hart
Randle/Obi
Ayton/Hart
I still think that Mitchell Robinson is better for this team than Ayton. Every time they go head to head, Robinson takes his lunch.
On top of that, the reason you don't trade for a guy like Ayton is the new CBA. There is now a 2nd cap "Apron" about $17.5M above the luxury tax threshold (i.e. 2nd Apron would be $181M in 2023). Teams that reach the 2nd Apron will be severely penalized. On top of luxury tax penalties...no mid level exception, no acquiring players on the buyout market, no trading cash, no ability to take in more salary than sent out in a trade. It will become increasingly important to have cost effective guys on the roster who play to their salary level. Ayton at $34M is not worth it IMO when compared to Mitch at $14M.
That is now.
You don’t do this if you don’t think Ayton contributes to making the team better.
Same for KAT or any other big name. This does not happen for another season.
ITs a good point. Its one that might make our guys more valuable via trades becusase
Mitch, contract actually declines to just under 13mil. Same for Brunsons. Knicks paid these guys well at the time they signed and are out performing which is brilliant in RETROSPECT.
IM not sure how many other teams are doing this or could.
I don’t know what the knicks end game is but they are positioned well.
gradyandrew wrote:LivingLegend wrote:Thinking along same lines Nalod/Andrew.....Ayton has been the big most on my mind - thinking about the off-season.
I think he's being underrated though not sure how Thibs or front office would think about him.
I had already looked up trades for both Ayton/Shamet but my thinking was just Mitch/IQ/EF for those 2.
Ayton actually give us a viable 2 way center, Shamet can help with shooting and in theory we could sign a DiVincenzo to replace some of IQ ball handling.
Brunson/DiVincenzo/Deuce
Grimes/Shamet
RJ/Hart
Randle/Obi
Ayton/Hart
I still think that Mitchell Robinson is better for this team than Ayton. Every time they go head to head, Robinson takes his lunch.
Lock Mitch in the gym shooting free throws underhanded. That method works.
Nalod wrote:foosballnick wrote:gradyandrew wrote:LivingLegend wrote:Thinking along same lines Nalod/Andrew.....Ayton has been the big most on my mind - thinking about the off-season.
I think he's being underrated though not sure how Thibs or front office would think about him.
I had already looked up trades for both Ayton/Shamet but my thinking was just Mitch/IQ/EF for those 2.
Ayton actually give us a viable 2 way center, Shamet can help with shooting and in theory we could sign a DiVincenzo to replace some of IQ ball handling.
Brunson/DiVincenzo/Deuce
Grimes/Shamet
RJ/Hart
Randle/Obi
Ayton/Hart
I still think that Mitchell Robinson is better for this team than Ayton. Every time they go head to head, Robinson takes his lunch.
On top of that, the reason you don't trade for a guy like Ayton is the new CBA. There is now a 2nd cap "Apron" about $17.5M above the luxury tax threshold (i.e. 2nd Apron would be $181M in 2023). Teams that reach the 2nd Apron will be severely penalized. On top of luxury tax penalties...no mid level exception, no acquiring players on the buyout market, no trading cash, no ability to take in more salary than sent out in a trade. It will become increasingly important to have cost effective guys on the roster who play to their salary level. Ayton at $34M is not worth it IMO when compared to Mitch at $14M.
That is now.
You don’t do this if you don’t think Ayton contributes to making the team better.
Same for KAT or any other big name. This does not happen for another season.
ITs a good point. Its one that might make our guys more valuable via trades becusase
Mitch, contract actually declines to just under 13mil. Same for Brunsons. Knicks paid these guys well at the time they signed and are out performing which is brilliant in RETROSPECT.
IM not sure how many other teams are doing this or could.
I don’t know what the knicks end game is but they are positioned well.
We all like to play amateur GMs. We should also be factoring in Salary and Cap impacts which are now even more important in moves based on the new CBA. Ayton is better than Mitch as a player. But the point is he may not be better for the Knicks at that salary as it will limit potential ither moves and may not get the team to a 55 win level.
KAT is an even better example. All the trade rumors on the net have the Knicks giving up players and picks for him. My question is why? The Wolves should be looking to unload KAT and selling low. Thy are saddled with Gobert and have to pay Edwards. KAT's contract extension will take him to between $50 - $62M through the 2027-28 season. Giving up too much talent/picks for KAT at that salary will probably put the Knicks over the 2nd Apron and not get them to the next level in terms of championship aspirations.
gradyandrew wrote:LivingLegend wrote:Thinking along same lines Nalod/Andrew.....Ayton has been the big most on my mind - thinking about the off-season.
I think he's being underrated though not sure how Thibs or front office would think about him.
I had already looked up trades for both Ayton/Shamet but my thinking was just Mitch/IQ/EF for those 2.
Ayton actually give us a viable 2 way center, Shamet can help with shooting and in theory we could sign a DiVincenzo to replace some of IQ ball handling.
Brunson/DiVincenzo/Deuce
Grimes/Shamet
RJ/Hart
Randle/Obi
Ayton/Hart
I still think that Mitchell Robinson is better for this team than Ayton. Every time they go head to head, Robinson takes his lunch.
Not sure how much of this is head to head but Ayton vs Knicks in 10 games avg. 15/11/2 assists/1 block. Mitch in 7 games 9/9 and 2 blocks. Ayton is younger and avg 17/10/2 assists/1 block while shooting 60% Fg / 76% ft on actual real shots / not dunks. The ft % alone is big.
As for extra cost for Ayton - there is a reason he got that money and if you are moving EF/IQ with new contract + Mitch we are offsetting the extra cost of Ayton/Shamet.
I just think Ayton is being undervalued and Brunson could really work well with him.
foosballnick wrote:Nalod wrote:foosballnick wrote:gradyandrew wrote:LivingLegend wrote:Thinking along same lines Nalod/Andrew.....Ayton has been the big most on my mind - thinking about the off-season.
I think he's being underrated though not sure how Thibs or front office would think about him.
I had already looked up trades for both Ayton/Shamet but my thinking was just Mitch/IQ/EF for those 2.
Ayton actually give us a viable 2 way center, Shamet can help with shooting and in theory we could sign a DiVincenzo to replace some of IQ ball handling.
Brunson/DiVincenzo/Deuce
Grimes/Shamet
RJ/Hart
Randle/Obi
Ayton/Hart
I still think that Mitchell Robinson is better for this team than Ayton. Every time they go head to head, Robinson takes his lunch.
On top of that, the reason you don't trade for a guy like Ayton is the new CBA. There is now a 2nd cap "Apron" about $17.5M above the luxury tax threshold (i.e. 2nd Apron would be $181M in 2023). Teams that reach the 2nd Apron will be severely penalized. On top of luxury tax penalties...no mid level exception, no acquiring players on the buyout market, no trading cash, no ability to take in more salary than sent out in a trade. It will become increasingly important to have cost effective guys on the roster who play to their salary level. Ayton at $34M is not worth it IMO when compared to Mitch at $14M.
That is now.
You don’t do this if you don’t think Ayton contributes to making the team better.
Same for KAT or any other big name. This does not happen for another season.
ITs a good point. Its one that might make our guys more valuable via trades becusase
Mitch, contract actually declines to just under 13mil. Same for Brunsons. Knicks paid these guys well at the time they signed and are out performing which is brilliant in RETROSPECT.
IM not sure how many other teams are doing this or could.
I don’t know what the knicks end game is but they are positioned well.
We all like to play amateur GMs. We should also be factoring in Salary and Cap impacts which are now even more important in moves based on the new CBA. Ayton is better than Mitch as a player. But the point is he may not be better for the Knicks at that salary as it will limit potential ither moves and may not get the team to a 55 win level.
KAT is an even better example. All the trade rumors on the net have the Knicks giving up players and picks for him. My question is why? The Wolves should be looking to unload KAT and selling low. Thy are saddled with Gobert and have to pay Edwards. KAT's contract extension will take him to between $50 - $62M through the 2027-28 season. Giving up too much talent/picks for KAT at that salary will probably put the Knicks over the 2nd Apron and not get them to the next level in terms of championship aspirations.
Kat is up in the $50-$60M range —- Ayton at $31M? is much more reasonable and a huge upgrade vs Mitch.
Do I see Thibs moving Mitch - nope.
foosballnick wrote:Nalod wrote:foosballnick wrote:gradyandrew wrote:LivingLegend wrote:Thinking along same lines Nalod/Andrew.....Ayton has been the big most on my mind - thinking about the off-season.
I think he's being underrated though not sure how Thibs or front office would think about him.
I had already looked up trades for both Ayton/Shamet but my thinking was just Mitch/IQ/EF for those 2.
Ayton actually give us a viable 2 way center, Shamet can help with shooting and in theory we could sign a DiVincenzo to replace some of IQ ball handling.
Brunson/DiVincenzo/Deuce
Grimes/Shamet
RJ/Hart
Randle/Obi
Ayton/Hart
I still think that Mitchell Robinson is better for this team than Ayton. Every time they go head to head, Robinson takes his lunch.
On top of that, the reason you don't trade for a guy like Ayton is the new CBA. There is now a 2nd cap "Apron" about $17.5M above the luxury tax threshold (i.e. 2nd Apron would be $181M in 2023). Teams that reach the 2nd Apron will be severely penalized. On top of luxury tax penalties...no mid level exception, no acquiring players on the buyout market, no trading cash, no ability to take in more salary than sent out in a trade. It will become increasingly important to have cost effective guys on the roster who play to their salary level. Ayton at $34M is not worth it IMO when compared to Mitch at $14M.
That is now.
You don’t do this if you don’t think Ayton contributes to making the team better.
Same for KAT or any other big name. This does not happen for another season.
ITs a good point. Its one that might make our guys more valuable via trades becusase
Mitch, contract actually declines to just under 13mil. Same for Brunsons. Knicks paid these guys well at the time they signed and are out performing which is brilliant in RETROSPECT.
IM not sure how many other teams are doing this or could.
I don’t know what the knicks end game is but they are positioned well.
We all like to play amateur GMs. We should also be factoring in Salary and Cap impacts which are now even more important in moves based on the new CBA. Ayton is better than Mitch as a player. But the point is he may not be better for the Knicks at that salary as it will limit potential ither moves and may not get the team to a 55 win level.
KAT is an even better example. All the trade rumors on the net have the Knicks giving up players and picks for him. My question is why? The Wolves should be looking to unload KAT and selling low. Thy are saddled with Gobert and have to pay Edwards. KAT's contract extension will take him to between $50 - $62M through the 2027-28 season. Giving up too much talent/picks for KAT at that salary will probably put the Knicks over the 2nd Apron and not get them to the next level in terms of championship aspirations.
Yes, and all good points! This is where we all get limited as to the MONEY vs value.
The Rudy Gorbert thing is over blown a bit as he is is not awful, but the rest of the team go this with injuries and needed to move on from D'russell. Edwards got to a slow start and KAT missed all but 27 games.
The notion of Randle plus picks and players could be over blown? I know PhilC thinks "Well since ainge fucked over Minny, they will need to do the same. Not necessarily. Why? It does not accomplish anything if in fact they are trying to.
Not if Randle and his contract are the primary asset as it should be. Mitch should not be in that because as Rudy is there already.
Mine gets big salary relief and production from Jules.
Knicks better with a Al HOreford type of 4-5 like KAT? Can Wolves be good with Jules, Rudy and Edwards and cap flex with a better contract?
gradyandrew wrote:LivingLegend wrote:Thinking along same lines Nalod/Andrew.....Ayton has been the big most on my mind - thinking about the off-season.
I think he's being underrated though not sure how Thibs or front office would think about him.
I had already looked up trades for both Ayton/Shamet but my thinking was just Mitch/IQ/EF for those 2.
Ayton actually give us a viable 2 way center, Shamet can help with shooting and in theory we could sign a DiVincenzo to replace some of IQ ball handling.
Brunson/DiVincenzo/Deuce
Grimes/Shamet
RJ/Hart
Randle/Obi
Ayton/Hart
I still think that Mitchell Robinson is better for this team than Ayton. Every time they go head to head, Robinson takes his lunch.
I visited family in Phx twice the past few years and watched Mitch eat up Ayton physically both times. While Ayton is more well rounded and skilled - he is super soft and I really think he is a worse fit around Randle due to him needing his own spacing and touches.
IMO, we need more of a Raef Lafrenz type of center... or in a different universe - a healthy KP that didn't already burn his bridges here.
