GustavBahler wrote:MaTT4281 wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Rookie wrote:I watched every Duke game back in 2019. Zion is one of those rare players that can impose his will on a game. If he is available, you get him. He could be a franchise changing player if he gets some discipline and maturity.
I agree. Absolutely some risk involved. Zion is worth it. Watching him light up in that clip upthread when asked about playing at MSG. Makes me confident that Zion would put in the work to stay there. Right now Zion is a big fish in a little pond, so to speak. NY is different.
Zion is a top 5 player when healthy. Short of winning a future draft, this is our very best shot at a player of this caliber. Who has yet to enter his prime.
I hope the FO at least makes a competitive offer.
For some teams and situations, absolutely. But I disagree for us, with where this team stands today, that the risk is worth it. We have a very, very solid foundation. Even as I remain open to moving on from Randle, you know what you're going to get from him, even on his bad nights. He's going to be physical. He's going to rebound. And he's going to move the ball (even with the iso's factored in). The team and our identity revolves around that. If you're going to replace him, you need a sure thing.
I don't see us as very far from being a top team, but we have quite a way to fall if we take a chance on Zion and it doesn't work out - if he doesn't get on the court. We don't need a homerun swing right now.
The last big FA star NY signed was Amar'e. The reason we were able to sign him was due to his knees. He was uninsurable. So I do appreciate the downside of signing a player with a history of injuries.
I see this situation differently. Zion's injuries as far as I can tell arent the recurring variety. The kind that robs a player of their athleticism. There seems to be zero dropoff in what Zion is able to do on a court from his rookie season, when healthy.
Leon is a super agent, maybe the most connected team president in the league. The biggest deal he has made so far is for his Godson. Thats how hard it is to get a star to play under the bright lights of MSG.
I dont blame anyone for wanting to pass on Zion. Yes, its a swing for the fences, but worth it IMO.
there was also that Jalen Brunson guy the Knicks signed last offseason in free agency I heard it worked out
Rookie wrote:I watched every Duke game back in 2019. Zion is one of those rare players that can impose his will on a game. If he is available, you get him. He could be a franchise changing player if he gets some discipline and maturity.
Sure Zion is tremendous when he plays but he’s always hurt. I don’t care about his baby mama drama that’s standard procedure in the nba. Shawn Kemp has like 8 kids by 8 different women. Even Jordan and Bird had their issues and Magic got the AIDS from his hijinx
Stephen A is on ESPN screaming for us to trade our whole roster for Zion. FML
Philc1 wrote:Rookie wrote:I watched every Duke game back in 2019. Zion is one of those rare players that can impose his will on a game. If he is available, you get him. He could be a franchise changing player if he gets some discipline and maturity.
Sure Zion is tremendous when he plays but he’s always hurt. I don’t care about his baby mama drama that’s standard procedure in the nba. Shawn Kemp has like 8 kids by 8 different women. Even Jordan and Bird had their issues and Magic got the AIDS from his hijinx
Stephen A is on ESPN screaming for us to trade our whole roster for Zion. FML
SAS wants a star by any means necessary. Even if they do not bring a chip, and I understand why. It's NY, It's the Mecca. We should always have a star playing under the broadway lights of the garden, so i get it.
martin wrote:GustavBahler wrote:MaTT4281 wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Rookie wrote:I watched every Duke game back in 2019. Zion is one of those rare players that can impose his will on a game. If he is available, you get him. He could be a franchise changing player if he gets some discipline and maturity.
I agree. Absolutely some risk involved. Zion is worth it. Watching him light up in that clip upthread when asked about playing at MSG. Makes me confident that Zion would put in the work to stay there. Right now Zion is a big fish in a little pond, so to speak. NY is different.
Zion is a top 5 player when healthy. Short of winning a future draft, this is our very best shot at a player of this caliber. Who has yet to enter his prime.
I hope the FO at least makes a competitive offer.
For some teams and situations, absolutely. But I disagree for us, with where this team stands today, that the risk is worth it. We have a very, very solid foundation. Even as I remain open to moving on from Randle, you know what you're going to get from him, even on his bad nights. He's going to be physical. He's going to rebound. And he's going to move the ball (even with the iso's factored in). The team and our identity revolves around that. If you're going to replace him, you need a sure thing.
I don't see us as very far from being a top team, but we have quite a way to fall if we take a chance on Zion and it doesn't work out - if he doesn't get on the court. We don't need a homerun swing right now.
The last big FA star NY signed was Amar'e. The reason we were able to sign him was due to his knees. He was uninsurable. So I do appreciate the downside of signing a player with a history of injuries.
I see this situation differently. Zion's injuries as far as I can tell arent the recurring variety. The kind that robs a player of their athleticism. There seems to be zero dropoff in what Zion is able to do on a court from his rookie season, when healthy.
Leon is a super agent, maybe the most connected team president in the league. The biggest deal he has made so far is for his Godson. Thats how hard it is to get a star to play under the bright lights of MSG.
I dont blame anyone for wanting to pass on Zion. Yes, its a swing for the fences, but worth it IMO.
Ha they do keep coming back though aka recurring 
blkexec wrote:Philc1 wrote:Rookie wrote:I watched every Duke game back in 2019. Zion is one of those rare players that can impose his will on a game. If he is available, you get him. He could be a franchise changing player if he gets some discipline and maturity.
Sure Zion is tremendous when he plays but he’s always hurt. I don’t care about his baby mama drama that’s standard procedure in the nba. Shawn Kemp has like 8 kids by 8 different women. Even Jordan and Bird had their issues and Magic got the AIDS from his hijinx
Stephen A is on ESPN screaming for us to trade our whole roster for Zion. FML
SAS wants a star by any means necessary. Even if they do not bring a chip, and I understand why. It's NY, It's the Mecca. We should always have a star playing under the broadway lights of the garden, so i get it.
It was my understanding that SAS just wants to talk loudly about something, anything
MaTT4281 wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Rookie wrote:I watched every Duke game back in 2019. Zion is one of those rare players that can impose his will on a game. If he is available, you get him. He could be a franchise changing player if he gets some discipline and maturity.
I agree. Absolutely some risk involved. Zion is worth it. Watching him light up in that clip upthread when asked about playing at MSG. Makes me confident that Zion would put in the work to stay there. Right now Zion is a big fish in a little pond, so to speak. NY is different.
Zion is a top 5 player when healthy. Short of winning a future draft, this is our very best shot at a player of this caliber. Who has yet to enter his prime.
I hope the FO at least makes a competitive offer.
For some teams and situations, absolutely. But I disagree for us, with where this team stands today, that the risk is worth it. We have a very, very solid foundation. Even as I remain open to moving on from Randle, you know what you're going to get from him, even on his bad nights. He's going to be physical. He's going to rebound. And he's going to move the ball (even with the iso's factored in). The team and our identity revolves around that. If you're going to replace him, you need a sure thing.
I don't see us as very far from being a top team, but we have quite a way to fall if we take a chance on Zion and it doesn't work out - if he doesn't get on the court. We don't need a homerun swing right now.
For me it goes back to how could we realistically upgrade the talent level to try to find a better #2 or even a #1 option. We would need to use Randle or RJ or Brunson to acquire that talent - unless we tanked and got lucky in the draft. If we stand pat and keep thinking Randle (a #2/3) playing our #1/2 option is going to lead us to a higher level - then I completely disagree as I don't see that as a possible scenario. Randle can be a #3 but then we would likely have to trade RJ or Brunson to acquire a more talented player. I get the concept and if our team roster was structured differently - I could acknowledge the risks differently. And I am not opposted to trading RJ or Brunson for the right deal...just don't think RJ brings enough back and moving Brunson would have to be with thoughts to start IQ and go with a complete youth movement IMO (won't happen with Thibs). When I look at who's available or the fact that we aren't looking at draft picks - Zion's situation (while risky) could be our best play as we would swap Randle out and could play more uptempo. Zion would definitely need to improve his health/conditioning and show more dedication and maturity - and that is risky.
Overall when I reflect on a 28 y/o Randle losing his mind 3-4x per season I think I'm willing to take the risk that a 23 y/o Zion's immaturity may not end up worse.
So if he passes his physical and is medically cleared (eg injuries due to weight or conditioning and not a chronic back/knee problem) - I'd offer up to Randle and two 1st rounders to get a deal done.
This is a case where even though I don't feel it would be a good idea to give up what it would take to get Zion, I certainly understand the desire to "roll the dice" on his upside if he were available in a fair trade. Even though it is apparent it's another opportunity for the "dump Randle" crowd to get their licks in, including him in such a deal would make sense. And even though my instinct is that it wouldn't work out, I would also be intrigued and supportive of the move as a fan.
And Stephen A = Clown Show. Nothing more.
Pzizer announced a penicillin shortage today. My guess is Zion is the culprit.
Knicks in the Leon era have a firm history of not overpaying anyone or for trades.
They wanted DMitchell and walked away.
Zion has no leverage currently. If they move him Pels will go to highest bidder.
This is where Ainge and Presti can make a deal.
If They want scoot as reported and CLT takes Miller, They could easily do a deal with Portland for the pick if out makes Dame Happy.
Philc1 wrote:GustavBahler wrote:MaTT4281 wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Rookie wrote:I watched every Duke game back in 2019. Zion is one of those rare players that can impose his will on a game. If he is available, you get him. He could be a franchise changing player if he gets some discipline and maturity.
I agree. Absolutely some risk involved. Zion is worth it. Watching him light up in that clip upthread when asked about playing at MSG. Makes me confident that Zion would put in the work to stay there. Right now Zion is a big fish in a little pond, so to speak. NY is different.
Zion is a top 5 player when healthy. Short of winning a future draft, this is our very best shot at a player of this caliber. Who has yet to enter his prime.
I hope the FO at least makes a competitive offer.
For some teams and situations, absolutely. But I disagree for us, with where this team stands today, that the risk is worth it. We have a very, very solid foundation. Even as I remain open to moving on from Randle, you know what you're going to get from him, even on his bad nights. He's going to be physical. He's going to rebound. And he's going to move the ball (even with the iso's factored in). The team and our identity revolves around that. If you're going to replace him, you need a sure thing.
I don't see us as very far from being a top team, but we have quite a way to fall if we take a chance on Zion and it doesn't work out - if he doesn't get on the court. We don't need a homerun swing right now.
The last big FA star NY signed was Amar'e. The reason we were able to sign him was due to his knees. He was uninsurable. So I do appreciate the downside of signing a player with a history of injuries.
I see this situation differently. Zion's injuries as far as I can tell arent the recurring variety. The kind that robs a player of their athleticism. There seems to be zero dropoff in what Zion is able to do on a court from his rookie season, when healthy.
Leon is a super agent, maybe the most connected team president in the league. The biggest deal he has made so far is for his Godson. Thats how hard it is to get a star to play under the bright lights of MSG.
I dont blame anyone for wanting to pass on Zion. Yes, its a swing for the fences, but worth it IMO.
there was also that Jalen Brunson guy the Knicks signed last offseason in free agency I heard it worked out
So close to getting that allusive "Gotcha" you so want.
But, the statement was "Big star FA".
Neither Randle or Brunson came here under that Starphuhery accolades that Amare did.
I'm interested to know how much Zion's lack of availability played in the reports that Ingram eased his way back from injury earlier in the year. There could be a feeling that Zion's lack of conditioning is detrimental to the team. Pelicans were a number one seed when Zion got shut down for the season but a big reason for that was their record in the games he had already missed (5-1) as opposed to the games he played (17-12) including 2-6 over his last 8 games.
Any trade for Zion can't be focused on the 82 game regular season but on the 100+ games of the regular season and playoffs. It seems doubtful at this point that Zion will ever be available for the playoffs.
Zion being a CAA client might work well for the knicks in terms of health intel on Zion. The FO might be able to get a clearer picture on than.
https://www.sny.tv/articles/assessing-kn...Today, we breakdown the math, pathways and impact of a Zion Williamson trade to the Knicks:What would the Knicks need to give up?
Williamson will make $33.5 million next year. The Knicks would need to send out at least $26.6 million to satisfy league trade rules. They can do this in a number of ways. (Our scenarios include the assumption that New York declines Derrick Rose’s team option and picks up Miles McBride’s team option.)
If the package to New Orleans includes Evan Fournier, New York would need to send out an additional $8 million in the deal. A package including Fournier, Toppin and multiple first-round picks would work. This would allow the Pelicans to shed salary in 2023-24 and in 2024-25, when Fournier’s contract expires. If the Pelicans want Randle, the Knicks sending out $37 million in a package including Randle, Jericho Sims and multiple first-round picks would work.
What about Barrett? Barrett and Williamson have a close relationship. Based on that – and other on-court factors – you’d think the Knicks would not include Barrett in a trade for him.
Also worth noting: Grimes’ 2023-24 salary is $2.4 million and Quickley’s 2023-24 salary is $4 million. I assume New York would do everything it could to keep those two out of a deal. I also assume New Orleans would want Grimes and/or Quickley in a package for Williamson. From a salary perspective, it’s easy to include Grimes’ $2.4 million or Quickley’s $4 million into any deal that sends out a total of $26.6 million.
Of course, the Knicks can send out more than $26.6 million in a trade for Williamson. But we’d assume New Orleans wants to take back less salary to improve its flexibility and avoid any punitive measures in the new collective bargaining agreement.
And we’re not commenting on the wisdom of trading these players for Williamson; we’re just laying out the math involved in making the trade work.
It can turn around for zion healthwise but he has to want it to happen. He needs to be motivated and to be surrounded by a solid high character group
Jimbo5 wrote:Zion being a CAA client might work well for the knicks in terms of health intel on Zion. The FO might be able to get a clearer picture on than.
Ankle and foot injuries are not good long term. Especially in a sport like basketball where players have to run up and down the court. It’s even worse for Zion because he’s already 290lbs
Stay away
I think Leon is taking the bargain basement shopping approach (not surprised). Basically waiting for the next GM to get desperate so he can jump on the best deal. And the Knicks are probably one of few teams with a wealth of young players and picks. So I’m sure they will get first dibs in any desperate GM trade.
This is where Leon shines, making savy short and long term deals. Makes watching the off season like a game of chess. He doesn’t appear to be pressured by fans or media. Probably why he talks less to ny media, to prevent them from using his own words as a pressure cooker to make a move.
Move at your own pace Leon. Love it.
Eddy Curry anyone? Or....
Oliver Miller
Glen "Big Baby" Davis
Robert "Tractor" Traylor
Stanley Roberts
John "Hot Plate" Williams
Mel "Dinner Bell" Turpin
Shawn Kemp, Derrick Coleman, and even Shaq probably sabotaged their careers to some extent being out of shape and overweight. Should I add Ray Felton?
Varying levels of talent listed - all to a degree if not extremely - but the point is made. Has Zion shown any inclination to deal with an issue that threatens to make him the all time bust?
