Knicks · Obi to Indy for 2 2nd Rd Picks (page 4)

gradyandrew wrote:The TPE is a lot less useful for trades than Obi the player because the TPE can not be combined with other players to make a trade. For example, adding Toppin to Fournier's contract opens up a lot more players to trades. With the TPE, Knicks have to find another player making 6.8 million or less.

Also since the Knicks are above the Salary Cap, they can't use that to sign any FA's; the only money available is the Non taxpayer MLE. Using the full MLE also leaves Knicks below the tax line.

Knicks will still need to find a back-up PF; maybe this is Roby's time to shine. Say what you will about Obi, he consistently gets 20 points when ever he plays 30 minutes. He knows how to score. He's proven himself in a way Duarte hasn't.

Knicks might have a deal lined up to trade Fournier and get back more salary so this would keep them below the tax line. Those 2nd picks are of limited value because the Knicks have so many in the cupboard. This deal gets a D for now for the Knicks.

Question: why wasn’t the market bigger for Obi?

martin wrote:

Clean wrote:

Chandler wrote:^^ agree. At the end of the day Obi did not impact the game other than scoring, and his scoring simply wasn’t good enough to outweigh the other shortcomings.

As an individual he is really easy to like and I’m sure he was a terrific teammate but come on, it can’t be the case that the plan is to let obi leak out every play or expect that he will have enough wide open cuts to think Obi would have a big impact

How much impact you expect someone who avgs less than 15mpg to have? We will find out just how good Obi is this next season. He is in a good situation for him so we will have our answers soon enough. Also how quicky we forget those leakouts have to be accounted for. Remember the Cavs coach specically made that point as to why Mitch could dominate on the boards.

How about a lot more for a guy who who was of matured age, has incredible athleticism, and was coming off being the national player of the year. Dude came to the Knicks and literally played scared to even shoot the ball for an entire year.

Anyone mad at Obi for not living up to being the guy we drafted or is it all on the coach to give a guy who was not really impacting a game more time? Obi needed to force the issue and he whiffed big time. Randle was mostly very good too, hard to beat our an all NBA type guy.

This is a dog eat dog world and Obi got those nice puppy dog eyes that flashed when he leaked out but not much after that. Obi sat himself at the 3point line and didn’t do much impacting after that.

Why we waiting on and accepting of a player who can only play minutes when they are handed out like candy? I want a dog who takes those minutes. Hart showed us how it’s done.

No more needs to be said. We will find out who is right next season. If Obi flames out I will eat crow on it no problem.

As much as I rooted for Obi and thought he deserved more play time... I hope he will figure out a position/role in Indy and use Thibs coaching to show what he has to offer in an expanded role. Wish it could have happened here and think we may miss him (even as a 10 min bench player) at times - but it did seem clear it wouldn't have happened here with Thibs and Randle running things.

Time will tell if Obi blossoms into an Amare level player or stays as a Stromile Swift highlight role player...

Clean wrote:

martin wrote:

Clean wrote:

Chandler wrote:^^ agree. At the end of the day Obi did not impact the game other than scoring, and his scoring simply wasn’t good enough to outweigh the other shortcomings.

As an individual he is really easy to like and I’m sure he was a terrific teammate but come on, it can’t be the case that the plan is to let obi leak out every play or expect that he will have enough wide open cuts to think Obi would have a big impact

How much impact you expect someone who avgs less than 15mpg to have? We will find out just how good Obi is this next season. He is in a good situation for him so we will have our answers soon enough. Also how quicky we forget those leakouts have to be accounted for. Remember the Cavs coach specically made that point as to why Mitch could dominate on the boards.

How about a lot more for a guy who who was of matured age, has incredible athleticism, and was coming off being the national player of the year. Dude came to the Knicks and literally played scared to even shoot the ball for an entire year.

Anyone mad at Obi for not living up to being the guy we drafted or is it all on the coach to give a guy who was not really impacting a game more time? Obi needed to force the issue and he whiffed big time. Randle was mostly very good too, hard to beat our an all NBA type guy.

This is a dog eat dog world and Obi got those nice puppy dog eyes that flashed when he leaked out but not much after that. Obi sat himself at the 3point line and didn’t do much impacting after that.

Why we waiting on and accepting of a player who can only play minutes when they are handed out like candy? I want a dog who takes those minutes. Hart showed us how it’s done.

No more needs to be said. We will find out who is right next season. If Obi flames out I will eat crow on it no problem.

Who is right? I don’t ever care about that type of thing.

Obi is going to need to be extended next year too. And there is considerable need to pay attention to the other moving parts, such as the luxury tax, apron, and any other expected trade the Knicks will most likely need to make over the next year or more.

This isn’t so much about if Obi is good or not but what is the best thing for team moving forward. And not for nothing, I hope this works out for Obi too. I hope he really shines over there and hope he can beat out Jarace Walker and co for minutes.

Any disappointment in Obi's value comes from the fact that we didn't just draft Haliburton. We're hardly the only team that made this blunder.

There's a lot of weird cap-related stuff that I don't really understand this year - as fans we just generally think in terms of best player available and best value.

Good luck to Obi. He wasn't really a great fit here in NY, but he was always an important X-factor, albeit one that rarely played out. I think we have an opportunity for a combo forward - a 6'7-6'9" sort of player who can play D, playmake, defend. Could the younger Toppin be a better fit?!

We kind of still have funky depth at the wing roles RJ/Grimes/Hart/Quickley plus we still have Fournier... and Keels on our roster.

Clean wrote:

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Someone will finally be looking for him on cuts.

Haliburtons vision and unselfishness will tap into Obi's skill set. If Obi gets 30 mins per, he will flourish.

martin wrote:

Clean wrote:

Chandler wrote:^^ agree. At the end of the day Obi did not impact the game other than scoring, and his scoring simply wasn’t good enough to outweigh the other shortcomings.

As an individual he is really easy to like and I’m sure he was a terrific teammate but come on, it can’t be the case that the plan is to let obi leak out every play or expect that he will have enough wide open cuts to think Obi would have a big impact

How much impact you expect someone who avgs less than 15mpg to have? We will find out just how good Obi is this next season. He is in a good situation for him so we will have our answers soon enough. Also how quicky we forget those leakouts have to be accounted for. Remember the Cavs coach specically made that point as to why Mitch could dominate on the boards.

How about a lot more for a guy who who was of matured age, has incredible athleticism, and was coming off being the national player of the year. Dude came to the Knicks and literally played scared to even shoot the ball for an entire year.

Anyone mad at Obi for not living up to being the guy we drafted or is it all on the coach to give a guy who was not really impacting a game more time? Obi needed to force the issue and he whiffed big time. Randle was mostly very good too, hard to beat our an all NBA type guy.

This is a dog eat dog world and Obi got those nice puppy dog eyes that flashed when he leaked out but not much after that. Obi sat himself at the 3point line and didn’t do much impacting after that.

Why we waiting on and accepting of a player who can only play minutes when they are handed out like candy? I want a dog who takes those minutes. Hart showed us how it’s done.

I agree with you on this big time.

joec32033 wrote:

martin wrote:

Clean wrote:

Chandler wrote:^^ agree. At the end of the day Obi did not impact the game other than scoring, and his scoring simply wasn’t good enough to outweigh the other shortcomings.

As an individual he is really easy to like and I’m sure he was a terrific teammate but come on, it can’t be the case that the plan is to let obi leak out every play or expect that he will have enough wide open cuts to think Obi would have a big impact

How much impact you expect someone who avgs less than 15mpg to have? We will find out just how good Obi is this next season. He is in a good situation for him so we will have our answers soon enough. Also how quicky we forget those leakouts have to be accounted for. Remember the Cavs coach specically made that point as to why Mitch could dominate on the boards.

How about a lot more for a guy who who was of matured age, has incredible athleticism, and was coming off being the national player of the year. Dude came to the Knicks and literally played scared to even shoot the ball for an entire year.

Anyone mad at Obi for not living up to being the guy we drafted or is it all on the coach to give a guy who was not really impacting a game more time? Obi needed to force the issue and he whiffed big time. Randle was mostly very good too, hard to beat our an all NBA type guy.

This is a dog eat dog world and Obi got those nice puppy dog eyes that flashed when he leaked out but not much after that. Obi sat himself at the 3point line and didn’t do much impacting after that.

Why we waiting on and accepting of a player who can only play minutes when they are handed out like candy? I want a dog who takes those minutes. Hart showed us how it’s done.

I agree with you on this big time.

Same with your above-above.

And this is a me thing: I always put pressure on the player. Obi had the same coaching staff as IQ Grimes Mitch RJ iHart all the young guys. Remember when Rose was gonna take away minutes from IQ? Didn’t happen in a negative way cause IQ kept showing us stuff; and then Brunson comes along… not a problem either, IQ just kept getting better and impacting the game.

Show something and stop letting fans make a minutes excuse for you.

Someone help me. In 3 years what did Obi get better at outside of raising his 3point shooting? Stronger? Better D? Understand team D better? Rebounding? Post ups? Mid range?

What changed?

I still can't believe we took that bum over Haliburton. They made the Pick to funnel money to CAA

Jmpasq wrote:I still can't believe we took that bum over Haliburton. They made the Pick to funnel money to CAA

I will say it one more time - if we drafted Halliburton would we have Brunson?

I wanted Halliburton but the result is the result. Brunson was born to be the Knicks point guard.

martin wrote:

gradyandrew wrote:The TPE is a lot less useful for trades than Obi the player because the TPE can not be combined with other players to make a trade. For example, adding Toppin to Fournier's contract opens up a lot more players to trades. With the TPE, Knicks have to find another player making 6.8 million or less.

Also since the Knicks are above the Salary Cap, they can't use that to sign any FA's; the only money available is the Non taxpayer MLE. Using the full MLE also leaves Knicks below the tax line.

Knicks will still need to find a back-up PF; maybe this is Roby's time to shine. Say what you will about Obi, he consistently gets 20 points when ever he plays 30 minutes. He knows how to score. He's proven himself in a way Duarte hasn't.

Knicks might have a deal lined up to trade Fournier and get back more salary so this would keep them below the tax line. Those 2nd picks are of limited value because the Knicks have so many in the cupboard. This deal gets a D for now for the Knicks.

Question: why wasn’t the market bigger for Obi?

Looks like no one wants to answer that. Conflicts with “the Narrative.” My theory is it’s just thinly veiled Thibs hate. To go with overplaying starters and not giving minutes developing young players (see stats for other teams front line players. Also see Grimes, IQ, Mitch, RJ….)

DiVincenzo to Knicks. Looks like Fournier 2.0

Philc1 wrote:DiVincenzo to Knicks. Looks like Fournier 2.0

Only cause you have no idea about Donte like at all?

martin wrote:

Philc1 wrote:DiVincenzo to Knicks. Looks like Fournier 2.0

Only cause you have no idea about Donte like at all?

Shot 39% with wide open looks last year because of Curry and Klay. So worth a 4 year $50 million deal

martin wrote:

gradyandrew wrote:The TPE is a lot less useful for trades than Obi the player because the TPE can not be combined with other players to make a trade. For example, adding Toppin to Fournier's contract opens up a lot more players to trades. With the TPE, Knicks have to find another player making 6.8 million or less.

Also since the Knicks are above the Salary Cap, they can't use that to sign any FA's; the only money available is the Non taxpayer MLE. Using the full MLE also leaves Knicks below the tax line.

Knicks will still need to find a back-up PF; maybe this is Roby's time to shine. Say what you will about Obi, he consistently gets 20 points when ever he plays 30 minutes. He knows how to score. He's proven himself in a way Duarte hasn't.

Knicks might have a deal lined up to trade Fournier and get back more salary so this would keep them below the tax line. Those 2nd picks are of limited value because the Knicks have so many in the cupboard. This deal gets a D for now for the Knicks.

Question: why wasn’t the market bigger for Obi?

My feeling is that there wasn't any pressure to trade him. Just losing that salary slot reduces the Knicks ability to make trades. Also, Knicks don't have a back-up power forward now- unless the idea is just to give Hart those minutes or maybe Roby. Even from an asset management view, I think Knicks could probably land a second round pick anytime for Obi between now and the trade deadline.

I just don't see the need to trade him now. Maybe that TPE becomes more valuable if a tax team craps out and needs to cut salary but the relatively small amount limits the players it can be used on.

martin wrote:

gradyandrew wrote:The TPE is a lot less useful for trades than Obi the player because the TPE can not be combined with other players to make a trade. For example, adding Toppin to Fournier's contract opens up a lot more players to trades. With the TPE, Knicks have to find another player making 6.8 million or less.

Also since the Knicks are above the Salary Cap, they can't use that to sign any FA's; the only money available is the Non taxpayer MLE. Using the full MLE also leaves Knicks below the tax line.

Knicks will still need to find a back-up PF; maybe this is Roby's time to shine. Say what you will about Obi, he consistently gets 20 points when ever he plays 30 minutes. He knows how to score. He's proven himself in a way Duarte hasn't.

Knicks might have a deal lined up to trade Fournier and get back more salary so this would keep them below the tax line. Those 2nd picks are of limited value because the Knicks have so many in the cupboard. This deal gets a D for now for the Knicks.

Question: why wasn’t the market bigger for Obi?

Because no one really know what he could/will become as he was a 10-12 per game player

One could ask that same question when talking about Randle...

KnickDanger wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:I still can't believe we took that bum over Haliburton. They made the Pick to funnel money to CAA

I will say it one more time - if we drafted Halliburton would we have Brunson?

I wanted Halliburton but the result is the result. Brunson was born to be the Knicks point guard.

Haliburton would of returned more in trade thats for damn sure.

Jmpasq wrote:

KnickDanger wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:I still can't believe we took that bum over Haliburton. They made the Pick to funnel money to CAA

I will say it one more time - if we drafted Halliburton would we have Brunson?

I wanted Halliburton but the result is the result. Brunson was born to be the Knicks point guard.

Haliburton would of returned more in trade thats for damn sure.

Completely missing the point. Never mind.

Obi replacement?

BigDaddyG wrote:Obi replacement?

Could be, or trot out RJ/J hart/Sims/Roby in the 10 minutes reserve play

One thing I will add, the NBA has made it increasingly more difficult for teams to duck the tax by forcing teams to guarantee the unguaranteed portion of contracts to make trades work (CPs deal was guaranteed to 25 million for the Beal trade) and forcing teams to hit the salary floor before the start of the season, rather than towards the end (like Indiana did last season).

Because of those changes, and an increasingly punitive tax, trade exceptions might have increasing value. Ie, if Kuminga isn't part of the Warriors rotation come trade deadline, they might be able to save something like 15 million in tax dollars by trading him to New York. In the right situation, Knicks could also get some draft compensation. A lot depends on how much there is in TPE money and above min salary/ below cap teams. I'm assuming Knicks front office has done some of the math on this.