Yeah but scary dead offense in the 4th quarter. I do fear the lack of a 3rd guy who can get his own shot or create some offense is a flaw. I also think lack of a secondary ballhandler is a flaw as this team is turnover prone and susceptible to the press and trap.
I do think Anunoby as a floor spacer is huge and dependable shooting from the corner and back door cutting is important. Both OG and Donte are good at this.
VDesai wrote:Yeah but scary dead offense in the 4th quarter. I do fear the lack of a 3rd guy who can get his own shot or create some offense is a flaw. I also think lack of a secondary ballhandler is a flaw as this team is turnover prone and susceptible to the press and trap.I do think Anunoby as a floor spacer is huge and dependable shooting from the corner and back door cutting is important. Both OG and Donte are good at this.
That was mostly because Brunson was trying to get on track but kept coming up empty. How often is that going to happen?
Rookie wrote:VDesai wrote:Yeah but scary dead offense in the 4th quarter. I do fear the lack of a 3rd guy who can get his own shot or create some offense is a flaw. I also think lack of a secondary ballhandler is a flaw as this team is turnover prone and susceptible to the press and trap.I do think Anunoby as a floor spacer is huge and dependable shooting from the corner and back door cutting is important. Both OG and Donte are good at this.
That was mostly because Brunson was trying to get on track but kept coming up empty. How often is that going to happen?
Maybe but a sound organization doesn't rely on " Oh well how often will that happen "
Alpha1971 wrote:Rookie wrote:VDesai wrote:Yeah but scary dead offense in the 4th quarter. I do fear the lack of a 3rd guy who can get his own shot or create some offense is a flaw. I also think lack of a secondary ballhandler is a flaw as this team is turnover prone and susceptible to the press and trap.I do think Anunoby as a floor spacer is huge and dependable shooting from the corner and back door cutting is important. Both OG and Donte are good at this.
That was mostly because Brunson was trying to get on track but kept coming up empty. How often is that going to happen?
Maybe but a sound organization doesn't rely on " Oh well how often will that happen "
that's a huge stretch saying that we are not a sound organization. This FO has been calculated;ating and added value at every step. Our cap is under control now. We still have our draft picks and the Dallas pick. You're going to have to wait until the trade deadline here. Deuce and Precious are going to get their chance over the next 6 weeks. Thibs has them on a short leash but they are going to get game experience. Mitch is definitely missed. Grimes is a guy that every championship caliber team needs. I wouldn't be so quick to jettison him. He can be retained long term on a reasonable contract that is favorable to us. For the second unit, we can build it back up through the draft. We have the luxury of being able to draft for need now. Patience is what is needed here and the FO has shown that it has that. Look how long they were working on the OG trade and we finally didn't get fleeced by Ujiri. When's the last time you could say that?
Have been busy with year end prep and celeb the last several days, so fell out of the news flow. Got up earlier this morning to watch the Knicks-Wolves game in peace, quiet and solitude, and suddenly saw these strange people on the court. For a second thought that my NY celeb had gone too far. Took me a while to figure out who'd gone missing. Not really happy.
Basically, we have traded a young, own-drafted, homegrown guy on a reasonable contract for his older clone, whom we will grossly overpay this offseason, so say goodbye to cap room for a while. Yet the team still lacks the requisite number of offensive superstars to take us to the next level.
And without IQ, our trade assets are garbage, no one will take late first rounders for anyone of quality.
Clearly a move that was made just because it could be made, not because it was needed. Textbook example of action bias.
Rookie wrote:Alpha1971 wrote:Rookie wrote:VDesai wrote:Yeah but scary dead offense in the 4th quarter. I do fear the lack of a 3rd guy who can get his own shot or create some offense is a flaw. I also think lack of a secondary ballhandler is a flaw as this team is turnover prone and susceptible to the press and trap.I do think Anunoby as a floor spacer is huge and dependable shooting from the corner and back door cutting is important. Both OG and Donte are good at this.
That was mostly because Brunson was trying to get on track but kept coming up empty. How often is that going to happen?
Maybe but a sound organization doesn't rely on " Oh well how often will that happen "
that's a huge stretch saying that we are not a sound organization. This FO has been calculated;ating and added value at every step. Our cap is under control now. We still have our draft picks and the Dallas pick. You're going to have to wait until the trade deadline here. Deuce and Precious are going to get their chance over the next 6 weeks. Thibs has them on a short leash but they are going to get game experience. Mitch is definitely missed. Grimes is a guy that every championship caliber team needs. I wouldn't be so quick to jettison him. He can be retained long term on a reasonable contract that is favorable to us. For the second unit, we can build it back up through the draft. We have the luxury of being able to draft for need now. Patience is what is needed here and the FO has shown that it has that. Look how long they were working on the OG trade and we finally didn't get fleeced by Ujiri. When's the last time you could say that?
Bro, I was responding to what Dsai said. I am saying a solid organization takes steps to insure we are versatile and prepared for various situations. So I will accept your apology now 😊
blkexec wrote:martin wrote:
How can we leave when this very thread was created with crying tears. 
Thought this was a thread that talks about how bad the trade was.
only cause it was started by a career complainer. If you actually looked at the trade its fantastic and demonstrates the patience this front office shows.
There were reports it would take 2-3 first rounders to get this guy. We eventually settled on RJ, literally the worst player in our rotation for the last couple years and IQ.
I will miss IQ dearly... was a wonderful player to watch. He loved to play. I do also love how the narrative shifted from "it doesnt make sense to pay him" to "we gave up a future all-star"
OG is 2 years older than IQ. He really changes the dynamic of the Knicks starting with having an answer for the elite wings the East is loaded with.
OG + Mitch = the death of your pick and roll. This is a move that has great future implications. I see OG as our Kris Middleton.
This was a very tough piece to get. Somehow we did it and KEPT our war chest of FRPs. The oldest guy is Randle. The others are 26-27. Our window is large. No albatross contracts. All our own FRPs and 4 extra, with 3 very likely to convey
fishmike wrote:blkexec wrote:martin wrote:
How can we leave when this very thread was created with crying tears.
Thought this was a thread that talks about how bad the trade was.
only cause it was started by a career complainer. If you actually looked at the trade its fantastic and demonstrates the patience this front office shows.There were reports it would take 2-3 first rounders to get this guy. We eventually settled on RJ, literally the worst player in our rotation for the last couple years and IQ.
I will miss IQ dearly... was a wonderful player to watch. He loved to play. I do also love how the narrative shifted from "it doesnt make sense to pay him" to "we gave up a future all-star"
OG is 2 years older than IQ. He really changes the dynamic of the Knicks starting with having an answer for the elite wings the East is loaded with.
OG + Mitch = the death of your pick and roll. This is a move that has great future implications. I see OG as our Kris Middleton.
This was a very tough piece to get. Somehow we did it and KEPT our war chest of FRPs. The oldest guy is Randle. The others are 26-27. Our window is large. No albatross contracts. All our own FRPs and 4 extra, with 3 very likely to convey
I liked RJ but you are right at this point it was a bit of a quasi-dump given the implications RJ had on our cap and his inability to take a major next step upward
fishmike wrote:blkexec wrote:martin wrote:
How can we leave when this very thread was created with crying tears.
Thought this was a thread that talks about how bad the trade was.
only cause it was started by a career complainer. If you actually looked at the trade its fantastic and demonstrates the patience this front office shows.There were reports it would take 2-3 first rounders to get this guy. We eventually settled on RJ, literally the worst player in our rotation for the last couple years and IQ.
I will miss IQ dearly... was a wonderful player to watch. He loved to play. I do also love how the narrative shifted from "it doesnt make sense to pay him" to "we gave up a future all-star"
OG is 2 years older than IQ. He really changes the dynamic of the Knicks starting with having an answer for the elite wings the East is loaded with.
OG + Mitch = the death of your pick and roll. This is a move that has great future implications. I see OG as our Kris Middleton.
This was a very tough piece to get. Somehow we did it and KEPT our war chest of FRPs. The oldest guy is Randle. The others are 26-27. Our window is large. No albatross contracts. All our own FRPs and 4 extra, with 3 very likely to convey
I want to see OG's extention before saying "No albatross contracts". If they resign him for similar money to JB/JR I'll be happy.
Panos wrote:fishmike wrote:blkexec wrote:martin wrote:
How can we leave when this very thread was created with crying tears.
Thought this was a thread that talks about how bad the trade was.
only cause it was started by a career complainer. If you actually looked at the trade its fantastic and demonstrates the patience this front office shows.There were reports it would take 2-3 first rounders to get this guy. We eventually settled on RJ, literally the worst player in our rotation for the last couple years and IQ.
I will miss IQ dearly... was a wonderful player to watch. He loved to play. I do also love how the narrative shifted from "it doesnt make sense to pay him" to "we gave up a future all-star"
OG is 2 years older than IQ. He really changes the dynamic of the Knicks starting with having an answer for the elite wings the East is loaded with.
OG + Mitch = the death of your pick and roll. This is a move that has great future implications. I see OG as our Kris Middleton.
This was a very tough piece to get. Somehow we did it and KEPT our war chest of FRPs. The oldest guy is Randle. The others are 26-27. Our window is large. No albatross contracts. All our own FRPs and 4 extra, with 3 very likely to convey
I want to see OG's extention before saying "No albatross contracts". If they resign him for similar money to JB/JR I'll be happy.
He's definitely getting 30-32M ascending but not 40M. He's a core piece for us
Panos wrote:fishmike wrote:blkexec wrote:martin wrote:
How can we leave when this very thread was created with crying tears.
Thought this was a thread that talks about how bad the trade was.
only cause it was started by a career complainer. If you actually looked at the trade its fantastic and demonstrates the patience this front office shows.There were reports it would take 2-3 first rounders to get this guy. We eventually settled on RJ, literally the worst player in our rotation for the last couple years and IQ.
I will miss IQ dearly... was a wonderful player to watch. He loved to play. I do also love how the narrative shifted from "it doesnt make sense to pay him" to "we gave up a future all-star"
OG is 2 years older than IQ. He really changes the dynamic of the Knicks starting with having an answer for the elite wings the East is loaded with.
OG + Mitch = the death of your pick and roll. This is a move that has great future implications. I see OG as our Kris Middleton.
This was a very tough piece to get. Somehow we did it and KEPT our war chest of FRPs. The oldest guy is Randle. The others are 26-27. Our window is large. No albatross contracts. All our own FRPs and 4 extra, with 3 very likely to convey
I want to see OG's extention before saying "No albatross contracts". If they resign him for similar money to JB/JR I'll be happy.
Hate to break it to you...
OG is not getting Randle/Brunson numbers. If those 2 were free agents now they would be making way more than their current contracts. If that is what you are expecting you are setting yourself up for disappointment. I think a good but fair contract for OG would be in the 35 to 37mil range.
Clean wrote:OG is not getting Randle/Brunson numbers. If those 2 were free agents now they would be making way more than their current contracts. If that is what you are expecting you are setting yourself up for disappointment. I think a good but fair contract for OG would be in the 35 to 37mil range.
I mean it's like our salaries raising every year right, 👍
Alpha1971 wrote:Clean wrote:OG is not getting Randle/Brunson numbers. If those 2 were free agents now they would be making way more than their current contracts. If that is what you are expecting you are setting yourself up for disappointment. I think a good but fair contract for OG would be in the 35 to 37mil range.
I mean it's like our salaries raising every year right, 👍
Devin Vassell just got 5 years 146mm. Probably the closest comp in both time period and performance. That a touch under $30mm a year. OG's defense is superior, but I don't think we are going near the $40mm mark.
EwingsGlass wrote:Alpha1971 wrote:Clean wrote:OG is not getting Randle/Brunson numbers. If those 2 were free agents now they would be making way more than their current contracts. If that is what you are expecting you are setting yourself up for disappointment. I think a good but fair contract for OG would be in the 35 to 37mil range.
I mean it's like our salaries raising every year right, 👍
Devin Vassell just got 5 years 146mm. Probably the closest comp in both time period and performance. That a touch under $30mm a year. OG's defense is superior, but I don't think we are going near the $40mm mark.
i agree i would be very disappointed if we went close to 40m.
J Grant also got 5/150
Ideally we can do 4/120m for OG but if not max out at 4/140m
Tommy Beer
@TommyBeer
When defended by Julius Randle this season,
Karl Anthony Towns is:
9-of-14 from the floor (64%)
4-of-5 from 3PT range
3 assists vs. 1 turnover
When defended by OG Anunoby this season,
Karl Anthony Towns is:
2-of-8 from the floor (25%)
0-of-1 from 3PT
1 assist vs. 2 turnovers
Tommy Beer
@TommyBeer
Per NBA tracking data,
OG Anunoby has been the primary defender on Anthony Edwards for 68 possessions (13:12 matchup minutes) - and in those 68 obsessions Edwards is:
4-of-14 from the field (28.6%)
3 turnovers vs. zero assists
I'd go as far out on a limb and suggest that back in June 2023 when OG switched to CAA, that's when Knicks FO made a decision to not resign IQ unless it was on their terms.
IQ/RJ to Toronto seemed destined for a while now, in hindsight. Makes too much sense from both sides.
martin wrote:I'd go as far out on a limb and suggest that back in June 2023 when OG switched to CAA, that's when Knicks FO made a decision to not resign IQ unless it was on their terms.IQ/RJ to Toronto seemed destined for a while now, in hindsight. Makes too much sense from both sides.
Toronto probably isn't making the playoffs but they have a pretty nice story with the homecoming of the hometown boy and building a young core around Barnes with RJ and IQ. The broadcasters were pumped about the trade. I'm waiting to see what they get for Siakam. He doesn't fit their timeline and he's definitely exploring FA. In short, he gone
Rookie wrote:martin wrote:I'd go as far out on a limb and suggest that back in June 2023 when OG switched to CAA, that's when Knicks FO made a decision to not resign IQ unless it was on their terms.IQ/RJ to Toronto seemed destined for a while now, in hindsight. Makes too much sense from both sides.
Toronto probably isn't making the playoffs but they have a pretty nice story with the homecoming of the hometown boy and building a young core around Barnes with RJ and IQ. The broadcasters were pumped about the trade. I'm waiting to see what they get for Siakam. He doesn't fit their timeline and he's definitely exploring FA. In short, he gone
Funny just a few years ago Atlanta and Toronto seemed primed to be good for a long time.
martin wrote:I'd go as far out on a limb and suggest that back in June 2023 when OG switched to CAA, that's when Knicks FO made a decision to not resign IQ unless it was on their terms.IQ/RJ to Toronto seemed destined for a while now, in hindsight. Makes too much sense from both sides.
imho, i think the knicks traded their best young prospect in this deal (IQ) which effects future deals. grimes doesn't have near the same type of value around the league so any future trade for a star will require the receiving team to be ok with a pick laden deal and not necessarily a young talent one. there are really no other young players other teams would covet on your roster.
the other possible option for a star trade is if randle is in the deal but not sure if a star is being dealt, the receiving team would want him - may have to be a multi-team deal.
i think things get very interesting for the knicks trying to improve on this team right now. mitch being hurt is pretty big. i think you have to use fournier's expiring this deadline otherwise you won't have any expiring contract fillers next year. even if it means trading him for a mediocre player who expires next year instead - punt that expiring. you need contracts to match salaries for trades. hartenstein is a UFA but with mitch hurt, you can't trade him.
the detroit and washington picks have no real value right now b/c they're probably not going to convey so you'll need to deal your own picks + the dallas pick.
so what can fournier + grimes (which is only $21 mil in contract) + 2 unprotected frps + dallas pick + 2 swaps get you? you would still need to add $10-15 mil in salaries to match a star so would that be mitch? hart? divicenzo? all of them have multiple years left.
getting OG is big but there's still alot of questions for you guys. alot of pressure for jalen + randle to pick up the scoring slack left by quick and rj. while you may not love them as players, they are still guys that can put the ball in the basket in the flow and on iso situations. og is great on the catch & shoot but the iso is a bit of an adventure.
the caveat here of course is the CAA connections and an agent forcing his guy to ny (not too unlike og).
i think something big has to happen with this roster within the next 12 months but when you really assess the contract and asset situation, i think a somewhat big trade has to happen this deadline.
nycericanguy wrote:EwingsGlass wrote:Alpha1971 wrote:Clean wrote:OG is not getting Randle/Brunson numbers. If those 2 were free agents now they would be making way more than their current contracts. If that is what you are expecting you are setting yourself up for disappointment. I think a good but fair contract for OG would be in the 35 to 37mil range.
I mean it's like our salaries raising every year right, 👍
Devin Vassell just got 5 years 146mm. Probably the closest comp in both time period and performance. That a touch under $30mm a year. OG's defense is superior, but I don't think we are going near the $40mm mark.
i agree i would be very disappointed if we went close to 40m.
J Grant also got 5/150
Ideally we can do 4/120m for OG but if not max out at 4/140m
I'm at 1@19mm plus 4 @130 = 5@149. Opt in with an extension to be agreed to.
