Knicks · Knicks look good, but now they need a new 6th man (page 14)

Rookie @ 1/8/2024 7:33 PM
technomaster wrote:Regarding Brogdon:
I was under the impression he's got old knees and is always hobbled or on injury maintenance (or injured altogether) come playoff time. But maybe my perception is wrong.

I think he's a great piece when looking at his size and numbers. But at the same time, my vision of a 6th man is a bit of a lightning rod that heats up fast and causes mayhem on the court. I think we already have that sort of ability in DiVincenzo and may have some of that in McBride as well. Heck, Achiuwa comes with that as well (though reports from Toronto always say he's a bit overzealous on offense)

I bet we can pry a young player from Detroit. They could use control of their pick. We liked Ivy in the draft. Fournier, Detroits 1st, our 1st for Ivy and Burks.

martin @ 1/8/2024 10:20 PM
Smart off bench?

Clean @ 1/8/2024 11:27 PM
I heard Snart is having a brutal shootijng stretch. I don't know for sure because I don't care to watch the Grizz but that is something to think about.
KnickDanger @ 1/8/2024 11:40 PM
Just looking at Smart’s 3 point percentages now and over the years I don’t think he’d be real popular in these parts. Would his strengths be enough?
Nalod @ 1/9/2024 8:19 AM
GustavBahler wrote:
Nalod wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
Nalod wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:Brunson has already been hurt once playing in garbage time this season

Thankfully it wasnt serious, but it was moronic to keep JB in the game. Thibs has been doing this going back to the Bulls. But hey we won last night! Who cares if a player's career gets wrecked because a coach is too insecure to trust his bench? Again, Brunson has already been hurt once this season in garbage time.

Speaking of the bench, as swishfm alluded to, those garbage minutes could be spent giving young bench players experience in high pressure situations. JB and Randle holding a 20pt+ lead with 3,4 minutes on the clock isnt a high pressure situation, but it is for young players who have little to no experience closing an NBA game. They dont want to be bench players forever, and garbage time is an opportunity for bench players to show they can handle more responsibility if called upon. And be ready if called upon.

Its also about how they do in practice. But the opportunities for young players to learn by doing are limited. Always playing your stars in garbage time limits their opportunities even more.

Thats two good reasons why Thibs shouldnt play his best players in garbage time. Im happy about a blowout against a lotto team, but not about this.

What I highlighted are your words. If its a high pressure situation, its not garbage.
There is a low probability they get hurt but if you must you'll keep scraping to find reasons.
If for some reason that bench dump starts to blow a lead and you have to bring your starters back in, then its far more probable they will get hurt.
Gustav vs 2 time COY Thibs on this subject. You the man!!!

And Nalod said the same thing about Phil, Rambis (one of the worst coaches in NBA history) You've flacked for some God awful coaches and execs. Then admitted they werent all that in NY, long after the fact.

You're right, I'm not a player. I dont vote for Thibs every year as the coach players want to play for the least. Why? Cause Gustav wrote some mean things about Thibs on a message board? Im all for team spirit, not cult-like behavior Nalod.

Your deflecting like my son used to at age 14. Winning an argument becomes more important then the facts.

We all say some funny things in our years here. I defended my stance on Phil many times as "He had good ideas that did not execute".
What is there to defend. The record on the court speaks for itself then as in now.

those garbage minutes could be spent giving young bench players experience in high pressure situations.

Sorry you can't see the humor in that statement because you are so intent on being that guy who is right.

Your son sounds more mature than you are. You've spent the better part of your time here, not talking hoops, but insulting other posters who talk about hoops. Thats all you're here for.

I remember you taking the same condescending tone when I said that Fisher leaving the team for a cross country booty call was a big deal

Typical Nalod, you assured everyone that Phil (cause you know him so well) didnt care. Guess what? Phil did care and that was mentioned as a big reason for his firing. Look it up.

All you do here is insult people just for having a different opinion. you single out posters for abuse, without adding anything germain to the discussion.

Let your son have your account, I get the feeling he isnt the fucking child you are.

That trade Brunson thread was the first time Ive ever read anything that involved you expressing something other than the FO company line. Only took 20 years and how many posts?

If you want to talk hoop, talk hoop. Lets get back to the subject and the line I highlighted which contradicts itself.
Deflect to my OPINION from the Phil Era is not how we discuss like adults the subject at hand is a tactic used by my 14 year old when he could not admit he was wrong.
You made a statement. Those were your words.
You seem to not get on with others that challenge your views. Lets be honest, We don't know each other and im not attacking you, Im challenging your view. Im flattered you recall so much of things I said years ago but given your penchant to bend facts to fit a view I would not take too much seriously as you don't wish to further the subject at hand.

I have admitted many times I was wrong or I state my thinking is an opinion. If you wish for others to be accountable you might want to look in the mirror yourself.

WE have a lovely place here and when posters make threads and get called out on it they tend to get very testy about things.
Being a "Fanatic" does not mean you can take license and make shit up. You're among friends. You don't bullshit your friends cuz they know better. Here we are a very well read group of knick fans who look up stats and often think thru concepts. WE challenge each other. If you bring a lazy take, you get called out. Not just by me, by others as well,

Every day there is constructive conversation of opposing viewpoints. Vast majority are mutually respected. Maybe your talking criticism a bit too personal at times. Again, your among friends.

Nalod @ 1/9/2024 8:30 AM
martin wrote:Smart off bench?

Marcus Smart was an inconsistent young player who was a tough defender but offense needed seasoning.
I'd like to think Deuce can grow into such a roll.
With Jah obviously having over done it and now out for the season Smart logically should be sold.
Jah came out to prove point and he did that he is a great basketball player. A player also has to know his body and preserve it. Perhaps thinking the worst is he was selfish to prove his point and not see his responsibility to the franchise and his contract.
Injuries can happen but if he thinks himself as indestructible dunking over players and flying recklessly to dominate then its a new kind of problem. Not everyone can be Jordan. In time he too learned to temper it down.
Jah is an amazing athlete but if he is to have good career he has to consider the aspects of "professionalism" which includes how you carry yourself on and off the court, train, take care of your body, and do what you can to prevent injury.
I don't know how this injury came about and as I said, perhaps I think the worst of him at the moment which might not be totally fair, but he has not exactly shown himself in the best of light. His return had elements of "revenge" in his post game comments,

Nalod @ 1/9/2024 8:44 AM
Smart makes basically EF money but for two more years after this. At 29 years old he still has much in the tank and im not saying he is a bad fit.
With Jah out does he keep his role for the rest of the season? Reboot for next year? There season is just gone now.

Grizz future was super bright and it still might be but things went south there really fast. They were young and arrogant but fun to watch!

Nalod @ 1/9/2024 8:53 AM
Rookie wrote:
technomaster wrote:Regarding Brogdon:
I was under the impression he's got old knees and is always hobbled or on injury maintenance (or injured altogether) come playoff time. But maybe my perception is wrong.

I think he's a great piece when looking at his size and numbers. But at the same time, my vision of a 6th man is a bit of a lightning rod that heats up fast and causes mayhem on the court. I think we already have that sort of ability in DiVincenzo and may have some of that in McBride as well. Heck, Achiuwa comes with that as well (though reports from Toronto always say he's a bit overzealous on offense)

I bet we can pry a young player from Detroit. They could use control of their pick. We liked Ivy in the draft. Fournier, Detroits 1st, our 1st for Ivy and Burks.

Detroit is an interesting study. They seemingly have not done much wrong as the picks at the time were appropriate. They were not lucky to tank in years were Chet or Wemby were there. Luck plays into it. the picks have not yet executed. They still might but its not a good look. Perhaps they need a Rockets type infusion of vet leadership beyond Burks and Began. If so, EF is a good shooter but would they pick up his option? Giving them picks prolongs the on court agony?
I like Ivey but do they throw in the towel after a season and a half?
Rookie, how would you use Ivey if he was traded here. I'd almost think DDV would be a great add for them.

Rookie @ 1/9/2024 10:10 AM
Nalod wrote:
Rookie wrote:
technomaster wrote:Regarding Brogdon:
I was under the impression he's got old knees and is always hobbled or on injury maintenance (or injured altogether) come playoff time. But maybe my perception is wrong.

I think he's a great piece when looking at his size and numbers. But at the same time, my vision of a 6th man is a bit of a lightning rod that heats up fast and causes mayhem on the court. I think we already have that sort of ability in DiVincenzo and may have some of that in McBride as well. Heck, Achiuwa comes with that as well (though reports from Toronto always say he's a bit overzealous on offense)

I bet we can pry a young player from Detroit. They could use control of their pick. We liked Ivy in the draft. Fournier, Detroits 1st, our 1st for Ivy and Burks.

Detroit is an interesting study. They seemingly have not done much wrong as the picks at the time were appropriate. They were not lucky to tank in years were Chet or Wemby were there. Luck plays into it. the picks have not yet executed. They still might but its not a good look. Perhaps they need a Rockets type infusion of vet leadership beyond Burks and Began. If so, EF is a good shooter but would they pick up his option? Giving them picks prolongs the on court agony?
I like Ivey but do they throw in the towel after a season and a half?
Rookie, how would you use Ivey if he was traded here. I'd almost think DDV would be a great add for them.

6'4" ballahndler with breakdown speed. Somebody the FO already wanted and tried to trade up and get. I think the FO is back to be willing to trade Fournier and picks. I don't see them trading any more rotation players. That includes Grimes who Thibs loves.

SergioNYK @ 1/9/2024 10:45 AM
martin wrote:Smart off bench?

Smart with orange hair bringing his defense and shooting would be nice!

martin @ 1/9/2024 10:54 AM
SergioNYK wrote:
martin wrote:Smart off bench?

Smart with orange hair bringing his defense and shooting would be nice!

Right, it just perhaps the making part that we would worry about lol

VDesai @ 1/9/2024 10:54 AM
Smart is super erratic offensively, but every so often he can definitely lead a spurt. He has a long way to go, but a lot of McBride's game profile's pretty similarly, all the way down the weird color hair.
SupremeCommander @ 1/9/2024 11:10 AM
Assuming the price is right, I like the idea of Jordan Clarkson. Would EF and a pick be enough?
Rookie @ 1/9/2024 12:00 PM
After releasing Taj and opening a roster spot. I wonder if we are planning to use one of our TPE's. Obi had a 6.8M and Barrett a 5.2M. That would mean we are targeting a player under 7M
Knixkik @ 1/9/2024 12:05 PM
SergioNYK wrote:
martin wrote:Smart off bench?

Smart with orange hair bringing his defense and shooting would be nice!

I’m definitely interested in Smart for a similar package as Brogdon (Fournier and a first round pick.) definitely want to get one of these guys to fill a role and also carry a good contract to move for a star in the future. Knicks aren’t trading hart or DDV in the summer so we need that tradable contract.

BigDaddyG @ 1/9/2024 12:16 PM
SupremeCommander wrote:Assuming the price is right, I like the idea of Jordan Clarkson. Would EF and a pick be enough?

Clarkson is shooting worse than RJ did with us. That first-rounder would need heavy protections.

BigDaddyG @ 1/9/2024 12:18 PM
Rookie wrote:After releasing Taj and opening a roster spot. I wonder if we are planning to use one of our TPE's. Obi had a 6.8M and Barrett a 5.2M. That would mean we are targeting a player under 7M

I'm not sure you're getting anything worthwhile with those TPEs. How often do they even get used leaguewide?

Rookie @ 1/9/2024 12:25 PM
BigDaddyG wrote:
Rookie wrote:After releasing Taj and opening a roster spot. I wonder if we are planning to use one of our TPE's. Obi had a 6.8M and Barrett a 5.2M. That would mean we are targeting a player under 7M

I'm not sure you're getting anything worthwhile with those TPEs. How often do they even get used leaguewide?

Pretty much never. You can't attach a player, but can you attach picks or cash? I dunno. Let's say you trade for Jaden Ivey. You send the TPE and Detroits FRP along with one or two more picks. Detroit then has control of its protected pick allowing them to start dealing. They would also get additional assets for trade in more picks from us. We wouldn't have to send a player and we just fill our empty roster spot. Unfortunately TPE's are murky and I don't know if that is allowed. Ivey's salary is 500k more than the Obi TPE.

fishmike @ 1/9/2024 12:29 PM
Grimes is the only movable asset. JHart and DD were just signed and Brunson's best friends and good players. They are staying. McBride CANT be traded since signing the extension. They did that because they think he's worth it.

Basically the bench is McBride/Grimes/JHart/myPrecious. While it lacks a shot maker I prefer they generate offense from defense rather than chucking

Rookie @ 1/9/2024 12:36 PM
fishmike wrote:Grimes is the only movable asset. JHart and DD were just signed and Brunson's best friends and good players. They are staying. McBride CANT be traded since signing the extension. They did that because they think he's worth it.

Basically the bench is McBride/Grimes/JHart/myPrecious. While it lacks a shot maker I prefer they generate offense from defense rather than chucking

Some good players could shake loose after the Trade deadline. For instance, Detroit really needs to do the right thing by Burks if he isn't traded. They should waive him and let him get to a playoff team.

BigDaddyG @ 1/9/2024 12:39 PM
Rookie wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
Rookie wrote:After releasing Taj and opening a roster spot. I wonder if we are planning to use one of our TPE's. Obi had a 6.8M and Barrett a 5.2M. That would mean we are targeting a player under 7M

I'm not sure you're getting anything worthwhile with those TPEs. How often do they even get used leaguewide?

Pretty much never. You can't attach a player, but can you attach picks or cash? I dunno. Let's say you trade for Jaden Ivey. You send the TPE and Detroits FRP along with one or two more picks. Detroit then has control of its protected pick allowing them to start dealing. They would also get additional assets for trade in more picks from us. We wouldn't have to send a player and we just fill our empty roster spot. Unfortunately TPE's are murky and I don't know if that is allowed. Ivey's salary is 500k more than the Obi TPE.

I think you could attach a pick to the TPE, but the incoming salary still needs to fit into the TPE. You would need to do a second trade that fits Ivey.

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