gradyandrew wrote:After Game 2 vs. Philly the refs and the two minute report were the stories of the game. Refs are incentivised to make the right calls because their pay jumps significantly the further they go in the playoffs. A lot of the calls made last night were similar to calls missed in game 2 vs. Philly. I think the refs just tried to make calls consistently throughout the game. It's on the players to adjust.
The funny thing is, the call they are all bitching about was a proper call that held up under review. The only missed call was the kick ball.
Yeah, I love the GIFT narrative, even if they don't call that foul, the Knicks had the lead and that doesn't mean the Knicks wouldn't get another stop. That one play didn't clearly swing the game 100%. We were clutch in the 4th, Knicks took the game. Without that call, Haliburton takes the 3 at a 40% clip that game, that is still a 60% chance he misses, so still in our favor with the lead. The refs didn't hit big shots, make big steals, hit free throws, the Knicks did.
DLeethal wrote:Philc1 wrote:DLeethal wrote:I think the panic is moreso looking at their bench scoring totals versus ours and somehow thinking if we played Precious more that would even it out. The only thing that would do is help us lose. Let their bench do what they do, our starters will do what they do. Wins are determined by who wins the bench scoring.
It’s more complicated than that. Besides the obvious statistical disparity Carlisle’s strategy is meant to physically wear out our guys and we lose yesterday if we don’t get that gift call against Turner in the final minute of the game
We were winning when we had that gift call so why would we lose?
I don't disagree with your premise though, that's what they do, and the Knicks have the things that they do well too. We have the ultimate closer, we dominate the offensive boards like we did in the 4th, we can put the clamps on in the 4th quarter like we did last night. Each team has their angles to work throughout the game. Ours doesn't have to be a deep bench, we can't pretend like we have a lot of options there and play guys for the sake of playing guys. Their bench is really good, we start playing scrubs we are gonna get killed.
In terms of wearing out, our team did the complete opposite late in the 4th quarter. Josh started rebounding like a madman, OG put the clamps on better than he did all game, Jalen was automatic down the stretch and had 20+ in the 4th. Nothing that indicates our guys were tired.
After the 1st quarter, agreed. But in the 1st quarter, we let them cut a 7-point lead to 3 in the last minute and things shifted with pace. They need to control the pace as much of the game as possible, but with their depth, you can't dictate pace all 4 quarters. Any quarter Indy doesn't score 30 is a winning quarter most of the time. I said it would be hard to win games if they scored over 120, we held them to 117 and won. I did like how we started the game for a change. I think JB scored 75% of his points int he 1st & 4th, that is what leaders do.
DLeethal wrote:NYStateOfMind wrote:I agree with this, but the problem is Hart only knows one speed, all-out speed. lol And, it becomes contagious. A leopard can't change his spots, but the rest of the team can play their pace which is best for winning. I f'in love Hart's style of play, very Sprewell cut your heart out and refuse to lose mentality.DLeethal wrote:My biggest takeaway is don’t try to run with these guys. I know it’s tempting to push but it lulls you in to a game you won’t win. We need to muddy it up like we did down the stretch.
I mean Hart was super effective in his one-man fast breaks last night. So it's definitely a delicate balance. But the first half pace was way out of our league. There's no point of willingly diving in to their style of play.
I wanted to pick up a Grayson, McConnell, or Tyus at the deadline, but I think the FO knew Randle wasn't coming back and did what they thought was best for a cheap move, in Bogey & Burks. Unfortunately, Burks seems toasted and we lost Bogey. Not much they can do about it now, but yes, the front office moves are severely underrated and that they weren't even nominated for executive and coach of the year is asinine. But this team doesn't care, it only adds fuel to the flame and their desire to win. Love these Knicks.
KD, Booker, and others don't want us still, F them. We need clutch ballers who want the smoke, not chumps. They will come knocking in the offseason and bench guys too. I doubt they will be in this position again next year. But, right now, only this year matters. Keep the foot on the pedal with unexpected wins to everyone but Knicks' fans.
nycericanguy wrote:Jhart trade is very underrated, getting him for a late 1st, in his prime... i mean its been a game changer and also made RJ expendable somewhat which allowed us to get OG.Getting Jhart and DDV for peanuts really set up the next move.
Before that we got Brunson for peanuts,
now we got Deuce for peanuts.
This FO has done an amazing job at not just going in on high dollar players.
JesseDark wrote:Hey, Jordan pushed off in '96 finals versus Utah. S h i t happenns they gonna have to deal with it.
That’s old and the Utah defender agreed. MJ touched him but did not push off.
DLeethal wrote:Pacers post game have taken the high road. Props to them. Much different then the Philly whiners.
Carlisle said “we know we’re not going to get calls here” —- that’s no high road but I don’t care what they say.
Knicks need another +100 favorable whistles to make up for years of bullshit calls against us.
Also F McConnell
If Knicks signed McConnell he’s probably play like Burks
NYStateOfMind wrote:What is going on with the Nuggets? Geesh, 61-35 at the half.
T—Pups are EXTREMELY DANGEROUS - in fact final 4 teams in West ALL look very, very good.
ToddTT wrote:This was 1000% a foul.I hope we’re not on the losing end of any calls like this one.
How do they review and uphold it?
Lots of hard body contact - I agree it was a foul but good for us.
technomaster wrote:Haliburton was really hurting (back spasms). He went 2/6 from the field (2/5 from 3pt range!). He normally takes 15 shots a game.Plus in the last 5 seconds it looks like he turned his ankle. Something to look out for.
I wanted Hali in the draft - no idea if he is hurt or just playing poorly.
The ? with Hali (for me at least) was always fear that his body wasn’t going to hold up to the grind particularly after broken wrist at Iowa St.
LivingLegend wrote:DLeethal wrote:Pacers post game have taken the high road. Props to them. Much different then the Philly whiners.
Carlisle said “we know we’re not going to get calls here” —- that’s no high road but I don’t care what they say.
Knicks need another +100 favorable whistles to make up for years of bullshit calls against us.
Also F McConnell
IDK I listened to the entire post game. He said he didn't want to talk about the calls or blame the outcome on the refs, said they didn't do enough to win the game, and they went into this not expecting to get calls at MSG. He didn't press on the officiating at all and focused on the game. I took that as "you don't go into a road playoff game expecting calls to go your way".
DLeethal wrote:gradyandrew wrote:After Game 2 vs. Philly the refs and the two minute report were the stories of the game. Refs are incentivised to make the right calls because their pay jumps significantly the further they go in the playoffs. A lot of the calls made last night were similar to calls missed in game 2 vs. Philly. I think the refs just tried to make calls consistently throughout the game. It's on the players to adjust.
The funny thing is, the call they are all bitching about was a proper call that held up under review. The only missed call was the kick ball.
I think the kicked ball (the one hit by the Pacer defender's hand) was a make-up call; on the Brunson dribble that was poked away by Haliburton (and overturned by challenge)... Brunson should have had a chance to recover the dribble but the poked ball hit another Pacer defender's foot before rolling over the Siakim.
The challenge was based on whether Haliburton had fouled Brunson... (he didn't)... I guess the Knicks could then have challenged whether the outcome (Pacers ball by virtue of Siakim ending up with it) was valid because the ball was then kicked.
Anyway, I don't want to dwell on the past. The Pacers shouldn't have given up 39 points in the 4th quarter and should have made their shots.
I'm not at all worried about the moving pick call. That was fine. Sucky call for the Pacers, but those calls are made all the time, especially when there's such a deliberate set up for it. Only 3 players were involved in the play and it happened over the course of seconds. It wasn't a bang bang play.
In retrospect, Haliburton and Turner weren't crisp in executing the pick. Hal should have sliced over closer to Turner OR Turner should have positioned himself higher. They gave DiVo room to fight over the top of the screen.
I think Bam Adebayo gets away with those calls is because he dives toward the basket after taking his man out. Turner didn't change direction toward the basket - his motion (albeit slight) was toward the DiVo, esp with the move of his right arm.
DLeethal wrote:TheMTL wrote:Panos wrote:TheMTL wrote:Panos wrote:We got NOTHING from the bench tonight.
Honestly, that's on Thibs. Guys need more than 4 minutes
Disagree. Right now, aside from Deuce we don't have any scorers on the bench. The rest are scrubs or non scoring bigs
I wouldn't call Precious a nonscoring big or a scrub
Precious is definitely a non scoring big. Not a guy you can expect offense from. Knicks can’t expect to match this teams bench. We will find a way to win other ways.
The Precious/Mitch minutes were abysmal as expected. I’d rather play 7 than watch that again.
Mitch should be benched and Precious at the 5 and or playing with I-Hart but never Mitch.
Mitch is awful - limping all over, can’t play pick/pop and is just a dead weight even with a few O rebounds.
Precious also has the ability to set better screens, catch/pass and occasionally gets some buckets (hit a free throw).
DLeethal wrote:nycericanguy wrote:Ive come to expect better from Deuce, he'll bounce back G2.Not gonna lie was surprised to see Siakam taking it to OG, but OG came up with some big steals late.
Overall really bad defensive game from us. But offensively Brunson, DDV and Hart were all great. Much easier defense to score against.
all the ref blaming these days is just cringe though, even Jamal Murray with the money gesture to refs, it's the easy cop out when a team loses now. spare me.
I wouldn’t say Siakam took it to him he only had 19 pts. He had a couple flurries when he caught it deep but OG did his job containing him.
Carlisle and Hali were pretty diplomatic about the refs I was impressed. They deflected and said it’s not about the refs. Turner bitched about it.
I can think of at least 1 3 that OG had to rotate off Siakim leading to open corner 3 and he also got at least 1 breakaway layup off a turn over. Only time he hurt OG when he let him get deep and he could shoot 10-15 foot fadeaway
Clean wrote:I am usually on the side of giving players a break but playoff time is different. You do whatever you must to win. McBride and Precious minutes were all negative last night. It is what it is. Players will have a few months to rest after we win the championship.
Negative because they were stuck with Mitch - hard to defend playing Mitch against this team - he isn’t moving and he is an abomination on offense.
EwingsGlass wrote:DLeethal wrote:fishmike wrote:Clean wrote:I am usually on the side of giving players a break but playoff time is different. You do whatever you must to win. McBride and Precious minutes were all negative last night. It is what it is. Players will have a few months to rest after we win the championship.
100% man, these guys are not made of paper. They are gonna be OK! Did Josh/OG/Jalen/DD look tired in crunch time last night? I mean honest question for everyone. Like this coach knows these players.
Everyone else seems like they are good with 2-3 min rest in each half. "Good" in terms of having enough energy to finish the game strong like they did last night. Josh can just play the whole damn game and maybe get 2-3 mins in the first half.
I wonder if Achiuwa should be taking some of Robinson's minutes to give the big guy some rest. He's looking like those legs could use a break. Achiuwa played Siakam pretty well this season and would free OG up a little bit. Turner plays a soft outside in Center and I am not nearly as worried about his 3ball as the Aarons.
This is all too obvious to me EwingsGlass - I agree.
VDesai wrote:JesseDark wrote:Ia McBride dealing with an injury, he seems to have fallen off a cliff offensievely?
Its not easy to walk off the bench and consistently pour in 2-3 3 pointers. I think he had a bad game but its not indicative of who he is. He didn't get as many minutes because he continues to struggle defensively against McConnell. This guy is one of the best on ball defenders in the NBA against point guards, but McConnell has his number.
Yes - one of my frustrations is McConnell (at least this year) has Deuces #.
I’m hopeful Deuce figures it out but Deuce strength is ball pressure where with McConnell it’s a containment / not pressure game.
DLeethal wrote:EwingsGlass wrote:DLeethal wrote:fishmike wrote:Clean wrote:I am usually on the side of giving players a break but playoff time is different. You do whatever you must to win. McBride and Precious minutes were all negative last night. It is what it is. Players will have a few months to rest after we win the championship.
100% man, these guys are not made of paper. They are gonna be OK! Did Josh/OG/Jalen/DD look tired in crunch time last night? I mean honest question for everyone. Like this coach knows these players.
Everyone else seems like they are good with 2-3 min rest in each half. "Good" in terms of having enough energy to finish the game strong like they did last night. Josh can just play the whole damn game and maybe get 2-3 mins in the first half.
I wonder if Achiuwa should be taking some of Robinson's minutes to give the big guy some rest. He's looking like those legs could use a break. Achiuwa played Siakam pretty well this season and would free OG up a little bit. Turner plays a soft outside in Center and I am not nearly as worried about his 3ball as the Aarons.
I think he should, but Mitch usually comes through whenever I start to doubt him. But yes he's probably in the worst shape of everyone on the team and least equipped to run up and down at a frenetic pace. Precious makes more sense in this series but Thibs probably sticks with Mitch.
Yep - Thibs probably sticks with Mitch. I could see 3 or 4 asst. coaches suggesting Precious over Mitch and Thibs putting fingers in both ears muddering nanananah
NYStateOfMind wrote:Deuce was not good, Mitch was close to unplayable, but Precious was used incorrectly at the 4 instead of in place of Mitch. So, I don't blame him for not succeeding last night. Use Precious as a backup C at times and if we ever have a cushy lead we can hold, sprinkle a shooter off the bench, and see if they can find a stroke. Burk hardly plays, he seems injured, why hasn't he healed by now? Mitch can still have his defensive subs, but he isn't blocking much and still letting smaller guys score at the rim.Clean wrote:I am usually on the side of giving players a break but playoff time is different. You do whatever you must to win. McBride and Precious minutes were all negative last night. It is what it is. Players will have a few months to rest after we win the championship.
Precious could also play with I-Hart but Mitch absolutely sinks the ship offensively and kills all flow.
DLeethal wrote:LivingLegend wrote:DLeethal wrote:Pacers post game have taken the high road. Props to them. Much different then the Philly whiners.
Carlisle said “we know we’re not going to get calls here” —- that’s no high road but I don’t care what they say.
Knicks need another +100 favorable whistles to make up for years of bullshit calls against us.
Also F McConnell
IDK I listened to the entire post game. He said he didn't want to talk about the calls or blame the outcome on the refs, said they didn't do enough to win the game, and they went into this not expecting to get calls at MSG. He didn't press on the officiating at all and focused on the game. I took that as "you don't go into a road playoff game expecting calls to go your way".
Ok - I caught the 1 part.
Me personally I could care less about all this other than we got a good whistle last night - YEA!!!
