Wasn't crazy about trading for him, but signing him to a short term reasonable deal? Have to think about it.
Demar would be an upgrade over Bogey, right? He could definitely command that second squad and more.
I'd guess that that would be the 2 guys exchanged cause of contract size. What would it take above Bogey?
BigDaddyG wrote:Wasn't crazy about trading for him, but signing him to a short term reasonable deal? Have to think about it.
martin wrote:Demar would be an upgrade over Bogey, right? He could definitely command that second squad and more.I'd guess that that would be the 2 guys exchanged cause of contract size. What would it take above Bogey?
BigDaddyG wrote:Wasn't crazy about trading for him, but signing him to a short term reasonable deal? Have to think about it.
He is a UFA, so a Sign and Trade using Bogey would hard cap us, again, so pricing become relevant when factoring in the other extensions we should be focused on.
martin wrote:Demar would be an upgrade over Bogey, right? He could definitely command that second squad and more.I'd guess that that would be the 2 guys exchanged cause of contract size. What would it take above Bogey?
BigDaddyG wrote:Wasn't crazy about trading for him, but signing him to a short term reasonable deal? Have to think about it.
This is purely fictional. He would have to give up a ton of money and a starting spot. There’s other places he can go where he would get at least the money or the starting spot or both. Hypothetically yes he would be an upgrade over bogey. But so would guys like De’Andre Hunter, Kyle Kuzma and some others. If DeRozan forced his way here maybe a sign and trade if bogey and 2 first round picks, why not?
Knixkik wrote:martin wrote:Demar would be an upgrade over Bogey, right? He could definitely command that second squad and more.I'd guess that that would be the 2 guys exchanged cause of contract size. What would it take above Bogey?
BigDaddyG wrote:Wasn't crazy about trading for him, but signing him to a short term reasonable deal? Have to think about it.
This is purely fictional. He would have to give up a ton of money and a starting spot. There’s other places he can go where he would get at least the money or the starting spot or both. Hypothetically yes he would be an upgrade over bogey. But so would guys like De’Andre Hunter, Kyle Kuzma and some others. If DeRozan forced his way here maybe a sign and trade if bogey and 2 first round picks, why not?
Derozan is gonna be 35 - not crazy to think he’d pass up money and starting for a legacy move.
Nalod wrote:Swishfm3 wrote:joec32033 wrote:martin wrote:
If this happens, can we please just build this man a statue now? If this man gives up $100 million to be a Knick and help the team, I honestly don't have words.
Didn't Randle do something similar?
Yes, he took below potential market value and he has exceeded his contract in hindsight. We don't give him props for it. The guy is 25-10 player and we talk like he not relevant and easily replaced.
$117 million instead of a possible $200.
I'm all for building 2 statues.
martin wrote:Swishfm3 wrote:Love OG and have been pining for this trade since rumored he wanted out of Toronto...Wouldn't be upset at all if they resign himbut...what do we think of a s/t with OG heading to Nets for M. Bridges?
OG is a better defender, but Bridges isn't far behind. Bridges is a more efficient shooter and more durable.
OG will guard the guys Randle can’t or won’t or when he is having an emotional meltdown, Mikal too skinny for that work.
And Embiid in a pinch when Mitch’s foot inevitably breaks again.
But with Mikal we are talking about guys like Brown, Tatum, Mitchell, Haliburton, Maxey, DeRozan, etc. - he’s a solid/great match-up with all those guys. Plus more importantly like OG - he is a perfect system/team/positional fit for our roster (Nova guys) and all for 1 style of play.
Personally I think he;s way more valuable than Julius because Julius 1) hasn’t performed in playoffs, 2) is coming off 2nd major issue, 3) Mikal has performed well in playoffs and 4) Mikal value is additive where with Julius he may distract from some of the great team ball we just witnessed.
If we can keep Jules and get Mikal for less than 1st born - GREAT but I don’t buy ANY argument that says Julius value is Mikal plus oodles of 1st round picks (that’s laughable to me because you have to look past the #s).
Panos wrote:Nalod wrote:Swishfm3 wrote:joec32033 wrote:martin wrote:
If this happens, can we please just build this man a statue now? If this man gives up $100 million to be a Knick and help the team, I honestly don't have words.
Didn't Randle do something similar?
Yes, he took below potential market value and he has exceeded his contract in hindsight. We don't give him props for it. The guy is 25-10 player and we talk like he not relevant and easily replaced.
Preach!
If he’s so great in theory we could get something great in return if we move him —— look past the 25/10 high usage #s and look at impact an OG had with far less counting stats.
YES - I thought Julius played fine last year but the notion this guy is irreplaceable after we basically just went on a great run without him until Mitch/OG/Bogey/Hart/Jalen all got hurt is silly
BigDaddyG wrote:Wasn't crazy about trading for him, but signing him to a short term reasonable deal? Have to think about it.
This would be nice if reasonable deal — guy gets buckets and can pass. He would basically be Brunson when Jalen sits and can play off of Jalen as well.
martin wrote:Demar would be an upgrade over Bogey, right? He could definitely command that second squad and more.I'd guess that that would be the 2 guys exchanged cause of contract size. What would it take above Bogey?
BigDaddyG wrote:Wasn't crazy about trading for him, but signing him to a short term reasonable deal? Have to think about it.
Much more ball handling and facilitating with ability to completely take games over. Plus can guard 2/3s some where Bogey really just guarding bad 4’s.
I loved Bogey pick up but I don’t trust him physically where Demarr sure seems to be aging slowly.
EwingsGlass wrote:martin wrote:Demar would be an upgrade over Bogey, right? He could definitely command that second squad and more.I'd guess that that would be the 2 guys exchanged cause of contract size. What would it take above Bogey?
BigDaddyG wrote:Wasn't crazy about trading for him, but signing him to a short term reasonable deal? Have to think about it.
He is a UFA, so a Sign and Trade using Bogey would hard cap us, again, so pricing become relevant when factoring in the other extensions we should be focused on.
Right... and I think you are hard capped at the first apron, so $178M. All the Knicks but without OG is $148M. You cannot resign OG and S&T for Derozen.
I think. I could be very wrong on this.
martin wrote:EwingsGlass wrote:martin wrote:Demar would be an upgrade over Bogey, right? He could definitely command that second squad and more.I'd guess that that would be the 2 guys exchanged cause of contract size. What would it take above Bogey?
BigDaddyG wrote:Wasn't crazy about trading for him, but signing him to a short term reasonable deal? Have to think about it.
He is a UFA, so a Sign and Trade using Bogey would hard cap us, again, so pricing become relevant when factoring in the other extensions we should be focused on.
Right... and I think you are hard capped at the first apron, so $178M. All the Knicks but without OG is $148M. You cannot resign OG and S&T for Derozen.
I think. I could be very wrong on this.
Pretty much. Tell me OG, iHart and Achiuwa’s 2024-2025 salaries and we can answer better. If OG wants a chip, he should opt in and sign a monster extension, like Hart’s modeling. But he calls the shots. In my head he is the second most important player on the roster.
Alternatively, if you target players under contract with Bogs and other value pieces, you maintain additional flexibility.
Would OG get more money than he gets on the open market by opting into his player option and signing an extension? Would be great if he did that because it would save us like 15mm in salary this year and keep us under the apron. Would be a real dissapointment to have to opt out of Bogey's contract to stay under the apron. A) Even if we don't trade him, he plays a role off the bench in the rotation that's very important and B) you want to have his kind of contract to build a trade around.
I’m pretty convinced bringing our guys back and adding Demar makes us the best team in the league.
DLeethal wrote:I’m pretty convinced bringing our guys back and adding Demar makes us the best team in the league.
Would you give up Deuce, Bogey, picks? I can't see Chicago not insisting on Deuce, right?
What's your pick threshold?
And how many years you giving Demar, who is 35yo, to come off bench?
martin wrote:DLeethal wrote:I’m pretty convinced bringing our guys back and adding Demar makes us the best team in the league.
Would you give up Deuce, Bogey, picks? I can't see Chicago not insisting on Deuce, right?
What's your pick threshold?
And how many years you giving Demar, who is 35yo, to come off bench?
That sounds like a sign and trade and like you noted before Martin - pretty sure any sign/trade places us a hard-capped team with very limited flexibility.
Think he would have to come for below market value with one of our exceptions - which doesn't sound likely.
No expert on above either so maybe I'm wrong on all that - 
martin wrote:DLeethal wrote:I’m pretty convinced bringing our guys back and adding Demar makes us the best team in the league.
Would you give up Deuce, Bogey, picks? I can't see Chicago not insisting on Deuce, right?
What's your pick threshold?
And how many years you giving Demar, who is 35yo, to come off bench?
A couple variables with Derozan though. He will have to accept coming off the bench, accept playing less mins, accept making less money than he probably could get from other teams. Then after that in terms of fit, while he would be a big upgrade in someone that can handle the rock and create offense for the 2nd unit. Between him, Hart and Mitch were talking no 3 point spacing for the 2nd unit.
I would only offer Bojan & one of our 1st in a S&T at Bojan money for 2-3 years. Not sure if that's what he would want.
DLeethal wrote:I’m pretty convinced bringing our guys back and adding Demar makes us the best team in the league.
I am not a buyer on Derozan. He fits my category of volume stat guy with terrible metrics. He can score in bunches but he can't see to move the Plus Minus into the black.
Right now we are
Brunson / McBride
DDV/ Burks
OG / Hart
Randle / Bogs
iHart/ Robinson
To improve, I think the only real ways to get better are to upgrade the blanks. Some of that can come naturally. For instance iHart might have some more gears in him. My move on DDV is about positional size, but the guy checks every other box for me. Randle is going to be "which Randle" for me until he averages a triple double on efficient shooting. High standards, I know, but I hold him in high regard and he is technically underperforming my expectations. I love MitchRob, but I need a bit more offense and the ability to hit a free throw. I am not forcing a move there, but if we are talking room for upgrades, he is one of the small areas. Bogs doesn't really match our timeframe. I'd like to use that 20mm of salary and picks to add to the core.
Brunson / McBride
_A_ / DDV
OG / Hart
Randle / _B_
_C_ / iHart
A - My ideal is Mikal Bridges. My second is Spida. My third is Paul George. My fourth is DDV - with someone like Alex Caruso off the bench. After that, its up for grabs.
B - For this, my ideal is Tari Eason, assuming he passes a physical. Energy big off the bench. A lot of ways to fill this spot.
C - Not a lot of options here. Open to suggestions. iHart and Robinson are the most likely situation to hold this down though in the short term.
Panos wrote:EwingsGlass wrote:DLeethal wrote:I’m pretty convinced bringing our guys back and adding Demar makes us the best team in the league.
I am not a buyer on Derozan. He fits my category of volume stat guy with terrible metrics. He can score in bunches but he can't see to move the Plus Minus into the black.
Right now we are
Brunson / McBride
DDV/ Burks
OG / Hart
Randle / Bogs
iHart/ Robinson
To improve, I think the only real ways to get better are to upgrade the blanks. Some of that can come naturally. For instance iHart might have some more gears in him. My move on DDV is about positional size, but the guy checks every other box for me. Randle is going to be "which Randle" for me until he averages a triple double on efficient shooting. High standards, I know, but I hold him in high regard and he is technically underperforming my expectations. I love MitchRob, but I need a bit more offense and the ability to hit a free throw. I am not forcing a move there, but if we are talking room for upgrades, he is one of the small areas. Bogs doesn't really match our timeframe. I'd like to use that 20mm of salary and picks to add to the core.
Brunson / McBride
_A_ / DDV
OG / Hart
Randle / _B_
_C_ / iHart
A - My ideal is Mikal Bridges. My second is Spida. My third is Paul George. My fourth is DDV - with someone like Alex Caruso off the bench. After that, its up for grabs.
B - For this, my ideal is Tari Eason, assuming he passes a physical. Energy big off the bench. A lot of ways to fill this spot.
C - Not a lot of options here. Open to suggestions. iHart and Robinson are the most likely situation to hold this down though in the short term.
Isn't "B" Precious?
Could be. Love me some Precious. Don't have the sense that Thibs feels the same way from his usage in the playoffs.
Read that OG will be exploring free agency and will listen to other team's offers. I really hope it's just to avoid tampering charges when we sign him 10 mn after free agency starts. Him leaving for nothing would be catastrophic.
