Knicks · Biden out (page 12)
GustavBahler wrote:Still don't know why you have to make it so personal. I leave open the possibility that I might not get everything right. Clearly you don't. Congrats on your infallibility, and humility.
Because this is real world stuff and when you get it wrong, lots of people suffer.
Do not get it wrong. I am AOK with not setting a low bar for this type of territory.
Alpha1971 wrote:Just an observation from a an American of Puerto Rican and Jamaican heritage. The Dems did not base it's platform on woke whatever or identify politics, like whatever G Bahler said. That's the talking point of right wing media. The right wing every year injects vague terms to their gullible base. Terms like liberal, Antifa, woke, socialist the squad, blah blah blah. Cause it works every time to confuse folks like a three card Monty game. Confusing Trump supporters that is the very same people they elect that does them the most harm. More harm then any woke protester can do to their bottom line. Things that I support likely benefits more white people then minority people because I care about justice, health care, democracy and environmental regulation. Most things that are good for people of color are just as good for whites. But some whites want to convince themselves someone is out to take their stuff away helped by other whites dedicated to scaring the shit out of their poorer brethren to exploit them, As a American of color I want to see all lives, especially mine get better. But I can't stop those who believe the divide and conquer stuff the conservatives thrive on, they are going to have to learn to ask the right questions on their own.
Democrats emphasized racial justice over economic justice. Thats not a talking point. Its a fact. It was a strategic decision to cobble together a voting block that did not include rural Americans. They in effect gave up on that consituency.Progressives like Bernie Sanders didnt say that Dems shouldnt speak out against racism, injustice. But putting economic justice on the backburner alienates tens of millions of rural voters.
In my neck of the woods, in a very conservative county, you would be surprised how many yard signs that say "Rural Americans against Racism". They support the fight against racism, but they also want their needs addressed as well, such as the lack of basic services, income inequality. The GOP wasnt talking about it, neither were the Dems. And to the joy of Wall Street, the Democratic party was more focused on the former than the latter for too long. Thats a fact. Neoliberalism in the Democratic party by the Clintons,Obama, helped give rise to regressive politicians like Trump. Astroturfed movements like the Tea Party.
GustavBahler wrote:Alpha1971 wrote:Just an observation from a an American of Puerto Rican and Jamaican heritage. The Dems did not base it's platform on woke whatever or identify politics, like whatever G Bahler said. That's the talking point of right wing media. The right wing every year injects vague terms to their gullible base. Terms like liberal, Antifa, woke, socialist the squad, blah blah blah. Cause it works every time to confuse folks like a three card Monty game. Confusing Trump supporters that is the very same people they elect that does them the most harm. More harm then any woke protester can do to their bottom line. Things that I support likely benefits more white people then minority people because I care about justice, health care, democracy and environmental regulation. Most things that are good for people of color are just as good for whites. But some whites want to convince themselves someone is out to take their stuff away helped by other whites dedicated to scaring the shit out of their poorer brethren to exploit them, As a American of color I want to see all lives, especially mine get better. But I can't stop those who believe the divide and conquer stuff the conservatives thrive on, they are going to have to learn to ask the right questions on their own.Democrats emphasized racial justice over economic justice. Thats not a talking point. Its a fact. It was a strategic decision to cobble together a voting block that did not include rural Americans. They in effect gave up on that consituency.Progressives like Bernie Sanders didnt say that Dems shouldnt speak out against racism, injustice. But putting economic justice on the backburner alienates tens of millions of rural voters.
In my neck of the woods, in a very conservative county, you would be surprised how many yard signs that say "Rural Americans against Racism". They support the fight against racism, but they also want their needs addressed as well, such as the lack of basic services, income inequality. The GOP wasnt talking about it, neither were the Dems. And to the joy of Wall Street, the Democratic party was more focused on the former than the latter for too long. Thats a fact. Neoliberalism in the Democratic party by the Clintons,Obama, helped give rise to regressive politicians like Trump. Astroturfed movements like the Tea Party.
Your take is wrong. In my thinking it's not rural America versus racial/environmental justice. That's a false dichotomy. What I do know is that a battle for example a Federal minimum wage that benefits all people it's often people of color and union members who are fighting for it. Rural Americans, mostly white, who would be the greatest beneficiary of a Federal minimum living wage oppose it as they vote for white conservatives who lie to them. No one votes against there self interest more then rural whites because of White identity politics who have white rural voters convinced, that if blacks progress it's only at their expense. You have gone all in on it I suppose, your presumption is false. But I'm not going to convince you nor try. Not until you see who the real enemy is will you be convinced. Have a great rest of the day. I used to be a conservative politically, but it makes no sense. Not that Dems are perfect, but ditching Dems because they aren't perfect to vote for down right horrible Conservatives is not much of a choice.
Alpha1971 wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Alpha1971 wrote:Just an observation from a an American of Puerto Rican and Jamaican heritage. The Dems did not base it's platform on woke whatever or identify politics, like whatever G Bahler said. That's the talking point of right wing media. The right wing every year injects vague terms to their gullible base. Terms like liberal, Antifa, woke, socialist the squad, blah blah blah. Cause it works every time to confuse folks like a three card Monty game. Confusing Trump supporters that is the very same people they elect that does them the most harm. More harm then any woke protester can do to their bottom line. Things that I support likely benefits more white people then minority people because I care about justice, health care, democracy and environmental regulation. Most things that are good for people of color are just as good for whites. But some whites want to convince themselves someone is out to take their stuff away helped by other whites dedicated to scaring the shit out of their poorer brethren to exploit them, As a American of color I want to see all lives, especially mine get better. But I can't stop those who believe the divide and conquer stuff the conservatives thrive on, they are going to have to learn to ask the right questions on their own.Democrats emphasized racial justice over economic justice. Thats not a talking point. Its a fact. It was a strategic decision to cobble together a voting block that did not include rural Americans. They in effect gave up on that consituency.Progressives like Bernie Sanders didnt say that Dems shouldnt speak out against racism, injustice. But putting economic justice on the backburner alienates tens of millions of rural voters.
In my neck of the woods, in a very conservative county, you would be surprised how many yard signs that say "Rural Americans against Racism". They support the fight against racism, but they also want their needs addressed as well, such as the lack of basic services, income inequality. The GOP wasnt talking about it, neither were the Dems. And to the joy of Wall Street, the Democratic party was more focused on the former than the latter for too long. Thats a fact. Neoliberalism in the Democratic party by the Clintons,Obama, helped give rise to regressive politicians like Trump. Astroturfed movements like the Tea Party.
Your take is wrong. In my thinking it's not rural America versus racial/environmental justice. That's a false dichotomy. What I do know is that a battle for example a Federal minimum wage that benefits all people it's often people of color and union members who are fighting for it. Rural Americans, mostly white, who would be the greatest beneficiary of a Federal minimum living wage oppose it as they vote for white conservatives who lie to them. No one votes against there self interest more then rural whites because of White identity politics who have white rural voters convinced, that if blacks progress it's only at their expense. You have gone all in on it I suppose, your presumption is false. But I'm not going to convince you nor try. Not until you see who the real enemy is will you be convinced. Have a great rest of the day. I used to be a conservative politically, but it makes no sense. Not that Dems are perfect, but ditching Dems because they aren't perfect to vote for down right horrible Conservatives is not much of a choice.
I like this take. Thank you.
Alpha1971 wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Alpha1971 wrote:Just an observation from a an American of Puerto Rican and Jamaican heritage. The Dems did not base it's platform on woke whatever or identify politics, like whatever G Bahler said. That's the talking point of right wing media. The right wing every year injects vague terms to their gullible base. Terms like liberal, Antifa, woke, socialist the squad, blah blah blah. Cause it works every time to confuse folks like a three card Monty game. Confusing Trump supporters that is the very same people they elect that does them the most harm. More harm then any woke protester can do to their bottom line. Things that I support likely benefits more white people then minority people because I care about justice, health care, democracy and environmental regulation. Most things that are good for people of color are just as good for whites. But some whites want to convince themselves someone is out to take their stuff away helped by other whites dedicated to scaring the shit out of their poorer brethren to exploit them, As a American of color I want to see all lives, especially mine get better. But I can't stop those who believe the divide and conquer stuff the conservatives thrive on, they are going to have to learn to ask the right questions on their own.Democrats emphasized racial justice over economic justice. Thats not a talking point. Its a fact. It was a strategic decision to cobble together a voting block that did not include rural Americans. They in effect gave up on that consituency.Progressives like Bernie Sanders didnt say that Dems shouldnt speak out against racism, injustice. But putting economic justice on the backburner alienates tens of millions of rural voters.
In my neck of the woods, in a very conservative county, you would be surprised how many yard signs that say "Rural Americans against Racism". They support the fight against racism, but they also want their needs addressed as well, such as the lack of basic services, income inequality. The GOP wasnt talking about it, neither were the Dems. And to the joy of Wall Street, the Democratic party was more focused on the former than the latter for too long. Thats a fact. Neoliberalism in the Democratic party by the Clintons,Obama, helped give rise to regressive politicians like Trump. Astroturfed movements like the Tea Party.
Your take is wrong. In my thinking it's not rural America versus racial/environmental justice. That's a false dichotomy. What I do know is that a battle for example a Federal minimum wage that benefits all people it's often people of color and union members who are fighting for it. Rural Americans, mostly white, who would be the greatest beneficiary of a Federal minimum living wage oppose it as they vote for white conservatives who lie to them. No one votes against there self interest more then rural whites because of White identity politics who have white rural voters convinced, that if blacks progress it's only at their expense. You have gone all in on it I suppose, your presumption is false. But I'm not going to convince you nor try. Not until you see who the real enemy is will you be convinced. Have a great rest of the day. I used to be a conservative politically, but it makes no sense. Not that Dems are perfect, but ditching Dems because they aren't perfect to vote for down right horrible Conservatives is not much of a choice.
You're painting a broad brush about rural Americans. Having lived in rural America for almost a decade. I can tell you that your understanding of them is quite limited. They worry about taxes, especially property taxes, because even a slight raise is enough to force them to sell their homes because of the lack of good paying jobs. The other taxes they pay, they dont see being invested in their communities. Yes there are rural Americans who vote against their self interest, just like on Staten Island, Long Island, the suburbs. People who helped put Trump in office. Thats the real false dichotomy. That this type of behavior is confined to rural America. If it was the race for President wouldnt be so tight.
You also leave out Latino voter attitudes towards Trump and his policies. From a Pew Research poll.
The state of the U.S. economy and inflation have been top issues for Latino voters in 2024.Its the same dynamic. Largely a product of misinformation from the GOP, and their allies in corporate America, and the Democrats going from the party of Labor to the party that played a part in turning Wall Street into a casino in the 90s with the repeal of glass steagal. The unwillingness to regulate derivatives. You gloss over the role Democrats played in pushing Americans into the embrace of the GOP. Not just white Americans.About half of Latino voters (52%) say they have confidence that Trump will make good decisions about economic policy.
By comparison, four-in-ten say they have confidence in Biden in this area. Trump also has a slim edge over Biden on foreign policy.
Im fully aware of the ugly side of living in rural America, more than you will ever know. But blaming it all on white identity politics, is misinformed at best, ignorant at worst.
GustavBahler wrote:Alpha1971 wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Alpha1971 wrote:Just an observation from a an American of Puerto Rican and Jamaican heritage. The Dems did not base it's platform on woke whatever or identify politics, like whatever G Bahler said. That's the talking point of right wing media. The right wing every year injects vague terms to their gullible base. Terms like liberal, Antifa, woke, socialist the squad, blah blah blah. Cause it works every time to confuse folks like a three card Monty game. Confusing Trump supporters that is the very same people they elect that does them the most harm. More harm then any woke protester can do to their bottom line. Things that I support likely benefits more white people then minority people because I care about justice, health care, democracy and environmental regulation. Most things that are good for people of color are just as good for whites. But some whites want to convince themselves someone is out to take their stuff away helped by other whites dedicated to scaring the shit out of their poorer brethren to exploit them, As a American of color I want to see all lives, especially mine get better. But I can't stop those who believe the divide and conquer stuff the conservatives thrive on, they are going to have to learn to ask the right questions on their own.Democrats emphasized racial justice over economic justice. Thats not a talking point. Its a fact. It was a strategic decision to cobble together a voting block that did not include rural Americans. They in effect gave up on that consituency.Progressives like Bernie Sanders didnt say that Dems shouldnt speak out against racism, injustice. But putting economic justice on the backburner alienates tens of millions of rural voters.
In my neck of the woods, in a very conservative county, you would be surprised how many yard signs that say "Rural Americans against Racism". They support the fight against racism, but they also want their needs addressed as well, such as the lack of basic services, income inequality. The GOP wasnt talking about it, neither were the Dems. And to the joy of Wall Street, the Democratic party was more focused on the former than the latter for too long. Thats a fact. Neoliberalism in the Democratic party by the Clintons,Obama, helped give rise to regressive politicians like Trump. Astroturfed movements like the Tea Party.
Your take is wrong. In my thinking it's not rural America versus racial/environmental justice. That's a false dichotomy. What I do know is that a battle for example a Federal minimum wage that benefits all people it's often people of color and union members who are fighting for it. Rural Americans, mostly white, who would be the greatest beneficiary of a Federal minimum living wage oppose it as they vote for white conservatives who lie to them. No one votes against there self interest more then rural whites because of White identity politics who have white rural voters convinced, that if blacks progress it's only at their expense. You have gone all in on it I suppose, your presumption is false. But I'm not going to convince you nor try. Not until you see who the real enemy is will you be convinced. Have a great rest of the day. I used to be a conservative politically, but it makes no sense. Not that Dems are perfect, but ditching Dems because they aren't perfect to vote for down right horrible Conservatives is not much of a choice.You're painting a broad brush about rural Americans. Having lived in rural America for almost a decade. I can tell you that your understanding of them is quite limited. They worry about taxes, especially property taxes, because even a slight raise is enough to force them to sell their homes because of the lack of good paying jobs. The other taxes they pay, they dont see being invested in their communities. Yes there are rural Americans who vote against their self interest, just like on Staten Island, Long Island, the suburbs. People who helped put Trump in office. Thats the real false dichotomy. That this type of behavior is confined to rural America. If it was the race for President wouldnt be so tight.
You also leave out Latino voter attitudes towards Trump and his policies. From a Pew Research poll.
The state of the U.S. economy and inflation have been top issues for Latino voters in 2024.Its the same dynamic. Largely a product of misinformation from the GOP, and their allies in corporate America, and the Democrats going from the party of Labor to the party that played a part in turning Wall Street into a casino in the 90s with the repeal of glass steagal. The unwillingness to regulate derivatives. You gloss over the role Democrats played in pushing Americans into the embrace of the GOP. Not just white Americans.About half of Latino voters (52%) say they have confidence that Trump will make good decisions about economic policy.
By comparison, four-in-ten say they have confidence in Biden in this area. Trump also has a slim edge over Biden on foreign policy.
Im fully aware of the ugly side of living in rural America, more than you will ever know. But blaming it all on white identity politics, is misinformed at best, ignorant at worst.
My statement didn't over generalize or get things wrong. I never overstated any point. It's you who operates in caricatures and extremes. You have soaked it in, now it's your life not mine. Do whatever you want. But your wrong. I don't care how you want to justify it or spin it. Your wrong. Go on your way in peace. I just know my politics doesn't harm people in rural America but would help them. You don't want to think it's an overstatement to say they vote against their own interest, go ahead. People in cities care about taxes and live on the margins as well. It's tough in the cities and suburbs but some people still vote believing the collective health of everyone is a self interest. You sure want me to be some sort of enemy of the rural people, but I am not your straw man for you to bounce your ideology off of. Your intellectually dishonest in this matter. You believe liberals are the only people with identity politics and that rural white don't have their own version of it that's your right to be wrong and to feel damn proud about it too.
Alpha1971 wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Alpha1971 wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Alpha1971 wrote:Just an observation from a an American of Puerto Rican and Jamaican heritage. The Dems did not base it's platform on woke whatever or identify politics, like whatever G Bahler said. That's the talking point of right wing media. The right wing every year injects vague terms to their gullible base. Terms like liberal, Antifa, woke, socialist the squad, blah blah blah. Cause it works every time to confuse folks like a three card Monty game. Confusing Trump supporters that is the very same people they elect that does them the most harm. More harm then any woke protester can do to their bottom line. Things that I support likely benefits more white people then minority people because I care about justice, health care, democracy and environmental regulation. Most things that are good for people of color are just as good for whites. But some whites want to convince themselves someone is out to take their stuff away helped by other whites dedicated to scaring the shit out of their poorer brethren to exploit them, As a American of color I want to see all lives, especially mine get better. But I can't stop those who believe the divide and conquer stuff the conservatives thrive on, they are going to have to learn to ask the right questions on their own.Democrats emphasized racial justice over economic justice. Thats not a talking point. Its a fact. It was a strategic decision to cobble together a voting block that did not include rural Americans. They in effect gave up on that consituency.Progressives like Bernie Sanders didnt say that Dems shouldnt speak out against racism, injustice. But putting economic justice on the backburner alienates tens of millions of rural voters.
In my neck of the woods, in a very conservative county, you would be surprised how many yard signs that say "Rural Americans against Racism". They support the fight against racism, but they also want their needs addressed as well, such as the lack of basic services, income inequality. The GOP wasnt talking about it, neither were the Dems. And to the joy of Wall Street, the Democratic party was more focused on the former than the latter for too long. Thats a fact. Neoliberalism in the Democratic party by the Clintons,Obama, helped give rise to regressive politicians like Trump. Astroturfed movements like the Tea Party.
Your take is wrong. In my thinking it's not rural America versus racial/environmental justice. That's a false dichotomy. What I do know is that a battle for example a Federal minimum wage that benefits all people it's often people of color and union members who are fighting for it. Rural Americans, mostly white, who would be the greatest beneficiary of a Federal minimum living wage oppose it as they vote for white conservatives who lie to them. No one votes against there self interest more then rural whites because of White identity politics who have white rural voters convinced, that if blacks progress it's only at their expense. You have gone all in on it I suppose, your presumption is false. But I'm not going to convince you nor try. Not until you see who the real enemy is will you be convinced. Have a great rest of the day. I used to be a conservative politically, but it makes no sense. Not that Dems are perfect, but ditching Dems because they aren't perfect to vote for down right horrible Conservatives is not much of a choice.You're painting a broad brush about rural Americans. Having lived in rural America for almost a decade. I can tell you that your understanding of them is quite limited. They worry about taxes, especially property taxes, because even a slight raise is enough to force them to sell their homes because of the lack of good paying jobs. The other taxes they pay, they dont see being invested in their communities. Yes there are rural Americans who vote against their self interest, just like on Staten Island, Long Island, the suburbs. People who helped put Trump in office. Thats the real false dichotomy. That this type of behavior is confined to rural America. If it was the race for President wouldnt be so tight.
You also leave out Latino voter attitudes towards Trump and his policies. From a Pew Research poll.
The state of the U.S. economy and inflation have been top issues for Latino voters in 2024.Its the same dynamic. Largely a product of misinformation from the GOP, and their allies in corporate America, and the Democrats going from the party of Labor to the party that played a part in turning Wall Street into a casino in the 90s with the repeal of glass steagal. The unwillingness to regulate derivatives. You gloss over the role Democrats played in pushing Americans into the embrace of the GOP. Not just white Americans.About half of Latino voters (52%) say they have confidence that Trump will make good decisions about economic policy.
By comparison, four-in-ten say they have confidence in Biden in this area. Trump also has a slim edge over Biden on foreign policy.
Im fully aware of the ugly side of living in rural America, more than you will ever know. But blaming it all on white identity politics, is misinformed at best, ignorant at worst.
My statement didn't over generalize or get things wrong. I never overstated any point. It's you who operates in caricatures and extremes. You have soaked it in, now it's your life not mine. Do whatever you want. But your wrong. I don't care how you want to justify it or spin it. Your wrong. Go on your way in peace. I just know my politics doesn't harm people in rural America but would help them. You don't want to think it's an overstatement to say they vote against their own interest, go ahead. People in cities care about taxes and live on the margins as well. It's tough in the cities and suburbs but some people still vote believing the collective health of everyone is a self interest. You sure want me to be some sort of enemy of the rural people, but I am not your straw man for you to bounce your ideology off of. Your intellectually dishonest in this matter. You believe liberals are the only people with identity politics and that rural white don't have their own version of it that's your right to be wrong and to feel damn proud about it too.
Not saying you're the enemy of rural people, only that your critque of rural America, while accurate is only part of the story. Two things can be true at the same time.
Rural Americans got screwed like everyone else over the last 50 years or so of going from stakeholder capitalism to shareholder capitalism. Both parties played a major role in getting us there.
In 2014 Northwestern and Yale did a study of polling data on a wide range of issues going back decades, affecting Americans. What they wanted their politicians to do, voted for, and what their representatives actually did. And they found in essence that their wishes were largely ignored. This cut across party lines. Politicians on both sides distracted voters to that fact. Incumbents stayed in office, longer. Got older, and fatter. Became part of the problem, instead of the solution.
Im hopeful that Harris will win the election, and start to reverse that trend, by not falling into the same divisive tactics that too many incumbents on both sides of the aisle employed to keep the status quo. Might be dreaming, but its a nice dream.
"They figured they can still beat their chest about Law & Order while running a felon".
"They think they can talk about fiscal responsibility while adding 8 trillion dollars to the depth".
"They think they can claim states rights while trying to pass a nationwide abortion ban".
As the youngins would say. This man is spittin.
In this very thread we have someone talking about RFK & Trump going after BIG FOOD. When deregulation is a staple of the GOP.
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TheGame wrote:Switching to Kamala Harris has totally unhinged the Trump campaign. The Republicans spent years developing the story line that Biden was too old to be president, and now all of that has been turned around on Trump as he rambles through speeches like an incoherent grandpa. The Republicans trained their voters to be scared of the "too old candidate" and the Dems turned Trump into the "too old candidate." Just brilliant.
Don't underestimate the resolve of his base. They still love them some moron.
martin wrote:Generally, the wealthy either buy politicians through PAC's or just have lobbyists buy them dinners for them and their mistresses and then hand them the laws they want written so that these things can happen.I don't have the time to read all the details to confirm exact story lines but you get the picture. This is how the wealthy do their thing in our country. To their own personal benefit not the benefit of all of us.
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There is a simple solution— have a 28th amendment that explicitly prohibits corporations from having the same first amendment protections as people under the 1st amendment. That would end the judge-made laws of Buckley v. Valeo and Citizens United. Good luck getting it through the senate though. Literally every republican will vote against it in addition to all moderate democrats
But it would also be a good litmus test and would pre-empt a 2026 red wave if Kamala wins
TheGame wrote:Switching to Kamala Harris has totally unhinged the Trump campaign. The Republicans spent years developing the story line that Biden was too old to be president, and now all of that has been turned around on Trump as he rambles through speeches like an incoherent grandpa. The Republicans trained their voters to be scared of the "too old candidate" and the Dems turned Trump into the "too old candidate." Just brilliant.
The new strategy is to hope the election is close enough they can make up a thousand different conspiracy theories. And in a way the Trump campaign has an effective strategy because this election will be closer than 2020. I still think Kamala wins both the popular and electoral votes but trump will probably win Pennsylvania
CanItGetAnyWorse wrote:Unity Government, interesting. Joe Rogan as press secretary?Javascript is not enabled or there was problem with the URL: https://www.twitter.com/RobertKennedyJr/status/1827713904581161147
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Interesting. Just curious why Trump was not all about unity government during his first term nor did he take on Big Pharma and Big Food or give any indication he would do so at that time. But now after a couple of tweets and pandering to RFK potential voters you feel Trump had suddenly become an idealist after 78 years as an extreme narcissist (including 4 years as POTUS) all about self branding and diverting money into his own pockets?
Hopefully everyone does.
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ToddTT wrote:Hopefully women vote in record numbers.
I think this is the tipping point, but like you said, everyone get out there and vote.
foosballnick wrote:CanItGetAnyWorse wrote:Unity Government, interesting. Joe Rogan as press secretary?Javascript is not enabled or there was problem with the URL: https://www.twitter.com/RobertKennedyJr/status/1827713904581161147
Click here to view the TweetInteresting. Just curious why Trump was not all about unity government during his first term nor did he take on Big Pharma and Big Food or give any indication he would do so at that time. But now after a couple of tweets and pandering to RFK potential voters you feel Trump had suddenly become an idealist after 78 years as an extreme narcissist (including 4 years as POTUS) all about self branding and diverting money into his own pockets?
People who have supported Trump have always done so by being willing to really lie to themselves. As well as try to sell themselves and anyone else that they are doing so for some type of greater good.
The POS is convicted of sexual assault in the court of law. Tried and convicted of 34 felonies. Lead an insurrection to delay the certification of an election by purposely lying about the results being stolen. Only to not provide any evidence in court in over 60 cases for almost 4 years. People died. Kept classified documents in order to use as leverage or sell them to the highest bidder.
Any moral ground they claim to stand on is null in void.