Knicks · Knicks traded for Towns (finally official 10/1) (page 42)

Uptown wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

Panos wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

Panos wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

Panos wrote:

blkexec wrote:Dude is making 60 mil. If he can’t be the second leading scorer we need to trade him. Hes a liability on defense already. Can’t be passive on offense too. That’s one think you didn’t say about Randles offense. He wasn’t passive.

I'm really in this camp. He's not worth his contract. Sorry.

It was my whole thing when the trade went down. Yes, he's more talented than Randle. But the stretch 5 thing gets negated when teams just stick a wing on him and his aggression wanes attacking the mismatches. Not to mention he sucks defensively and drivers have no fear driving against him. He's got superstar talent, but a fourth option mindset.

Just for sh!ts and giggles, let's say you could reverse the trade. How does this team stack up?
Starting 5
JB
Mikal
OG
Randle
Mitch

Bench
Cam or vet replacement
Deuce
DDV
Hart
Hukporti

Bench is a little vertically challeged, but maybe a small move fixes that.

Our Bench is vertically challenged now. But the bench would go from 2.5 players to 3.5 players.

Better team, worse, or push?

Even if both the Knicks and Timberwolves get swept one can argue it was a trade that benefited both teams? Why? Knicks got further in the playoffs and the wolves returned to the WCF without Towns.

ehhh...its not that black and white. Minny was fortunate to play GS without Steph. I think if Steph is healthy, the Wolves would be watching the the WCF from their couches (or Cancun). The Knicks were on the verge of going up 3-1 before Tatum went down. If Tatum doesnt get hurt, do we still advance? None of us can say for sure but the odds were in our favor. I say all that to say, our path to the ECF was much tougher than The Wolves path to the WCF.

Agree the wolves got lucky.

KAT is tradeable. I think PHX would be happy to pair him with Booker and GSW would have interest but they’d have to give up on Butler. They’re always rumored to pair Draymond with a scoring big (Vucevic etc). If you scour the league there’s probably more teams that would have interest.

I do believe Giannis probably hates the Pacers just as bad as the Knicks do and I wonder if he sees what I see in terms of the opportunity to destroy them year after year

Another team id look at is Memphis. JJJ has ties to Knicks and is due a mega deal they might not want to give. Desmond Bane is also a guy Knicks have wanted and perfect kind of fit here. We have pieces they would probably want to retool around Morant with.

If DDV were playing up to his potential, this trade would be a one-sided win for the Wolves — especially under the new CBA rules. Julius isn’t getting north of $40M, and that 17th pick is extremely valuable with this front office. They’ve nailed late picks: Quickley, Grimes, Haka-Porti — all solid rotation guys. So it’s essentially 3 for the price of 1, and honestly, I’d still rather have those assets on this team.

If Mitch were healthy, I’m not even sure they pull the trigger on the deal.

As for KAT — it’s a real plus-minus dilemma. His defense completely cancels out whatever he gives you on offense. If he’d just stay on his feet and fight for position inside, it’d be a different story. But the constant complaining and lack of physicality?

MS wrote:If DDV were playing up to his potential, this trade would be a one-sided win for the Wolves — especially under the new CBA rules. Julius isn’t getting north of $40M, and that 17th pick is extremely valuable with this front office. They’ve nailed late picks: Quickley, Grimes, Haka-Porti — all solid rotation guys. So it’s essentially 3 for the price of 1, and honestly, I’d still rather have those assets on this team.

If Mitch were healthy, I’m not even sure they pull the trigger on the deal.

As for KAT — it’s a real plus-minus dilemma. His defense completely cancels out whatever he gives you on offense. If he’d just stay on his feet and fight for position inside, it’d be a different story. But the constant complaining and lack of physicality?

I don’t think that’s a fair shake of the contract dollars.

Randle makes $33M this year. I’m guessing Randle will command at least $45M+, whether that’s his fair market value or not doesn’t really matter, he will be an UFA and he has the leverage to push his top line ask. Whomever organization has to negotiate with Randle will be on his timeline for keeping him at his price, losing him for nothing, or S&T which also limits the organizational maneuverability.

DDV will make $12M next year. 17 pick is $3M. I’d guess Randle plus DDV plus rookie would be in the $60+M range, a good $7m above KAT.

Randle shot 31% 34% 31% 34% from 3point over the last 4 seasons. Mitch Randle big lineup is tough spacing down the middle. It’s fairly easy to scheme against by just clogging exactly what Brunson needs for spacing. If iHart were around, his PnR play, passing, floaters, and high IQ movement on O were good enough for Randle Brunson to operate IMO; with Mitch, not so much.

I don’t know if KAT solves more problems than he creates but that’s a different hurdle. Knicks may have maxed DDV - and that’s debatable too - but his career and this year’s numbers suggest that.

I don’t even care for KAT overall but I don’t know if the other situation is any better overall.

I’m in the boat that KAT is tradable, even with his obvious deficiencies, both in terms of salary and play.

I’ve thought for a while now that Leon’s biggest decision will be whether he can build enough around Jalen and KAT to make it work. We shall see this summer how that shakes out. Enough info on KAT is on display.

martin wrote:

MS wrote:If DDV were playing up to his potential, this trade would be a one-sided win for the Wolves — especially under the new CBA rules. Julius isn’t getting north of $40M, and that 17th pick is extremely valuable with this front office. They’ve nailed late picks: Quickley, Grimes, Haka-Porti — all solid rotation guys. So it’s essentially 3 for the price of 1, and honestly, I’d still rather have those assets on this team.

If Mitch were healthy, I’m not even sure they pull the trigger on the deal.

As for KAT — it’s a real plus-minus dilemma. His defense completely cancels out whatever he gives you on offense. If he’d just stay on his feet and fight for position inside, it’d be a different story. But the constant complaining and lack of physicality?

I don’t think that’s a fair shake of the contract dollars.

Randle makes $33M this year. I’m guessing Randle will command at least $45M+, whether that’s his fair market value or not doesn’t really matter, he will be an UFA and he has the leverage to push his top line ask. Whomever organization has to negotiate with Randle will be on his timeline for keeping him at his price, losing him for nothing, or S&T which also limits the organizational maneuverability.

DDV will make $12M next year. 17 pick is $3M. I’d guess Randle plus DDV plus rookie would be in the $60+M range, a good $7m above KAT.

Randle shot 31% 34% 31% 34% from 3point over the last 4 seasons. Mitch Randle big lineup is tough spacing down the middle. It’s fairly easy to scheme against by just clogging exactly what Brunson needs for spacing. If iHart were around, his PnR play, passing, floaters, and high IQ movement on O were good enough for Randle Brunson to operate IMO; with Mitch, not so much.

I don’t know if KAT solves more problems than he creates but that’s a different hurdle. Knicks may have maxed DDV - and that’s debatable too - but his career and this year’s numbers suggest that.

I don’t even care for KAT overall but I don’t know if the other situation is any better overall.

I’m in the boat that KAT is tradable, even with his obvious deficiencies, both in terms of salary and play.

I’ve thought for a while now that Leon’s biggest decision will be whether he can build enough around Jalen and KAT to make it work. We shall see this summer how that shakes out. Enough info on KAT is on display.

I hope Julius gets a big payday. He signed with us at a discount in 2021. I imagine if he could go back in time, he would not do that again.

KAT proved last night he is a true NY Knick.
Kid has heart.
Kid wants to be here.
Hugely talented and can improve.
Trade is behind us and gets my support going forward.

Towns is the second best offensive big in the league and unplayable on defense with Brunson. I’m not sure what to think anymore. I don’t think Thibs does either.

martin wrote:

MS wrote:If DDV were playing up to his potential, this trade would be a one-sided win for the Wolves — especially under the new CBA rules. Julius isn’t getting north of $40M, and that 17th pick is extremely valuable with this front office. They’ve nailed late picks: Quickley, Grimes, Haka-Porti — all solid rotation guys. So it’s essentially 3 for the price of 1, and honestly, I’d still rather have those assets on this team.

If Mitch were healthy, I’m not even sure they pull the trigger on the deal.

As for KAT — it’s a real plus-minus dilemma. His defense completely cancels out whatever he gives you on offense. If he’d just stay on his feet and fight for position inside, it’d be a different story. But the constant complaining and lack of physicality?

I don’t think that’s a fair shake of the contract dollars.

Randle makes $33M this year. I’m guessing Randle will command at least $45M+, whether that’s his fair market value or not doesn’t really matter, he will be an UFA and he has the leverage to push his top line ask. Whomever organization has to negotiate with Randle will be on his timeline for keeping him at his price, losing him for nothing, or S&T which also limits the organizational maneuverability.

DDV will make $12M next year. 17 pick is $3M. I’d guess Randle plus DDV plus rookie would be in the $60+M range, a good $7m above KAT.

Randle shot 31% 34% 31% 34% from 3point over the last 4 seasons. Mitch Randle big lineup is tough spacing down the middle. It’s fairly easy to scheme against by just clogging exactly what Brunson needs for spacing. If iHart were around, his PnR play, passing, floaters, and high IQ movement on O were good enough for Randle Brunson to operate IMO; with Mitch, not so much.

I don’t know if KAT solves more problems than he creates but that’s a different hurdle. Knicks may have maxed DDV - and that’s debatable too - but his career and this year’s numbers suggest that.

I don’t even care for KAT overall but I don’t know if the other situation is any better overall.

I’m in the boat that KAT is tradable, even with his obvious deficiencies, both in terms of salary and play.

I’ve thought for a while now that Leon’s biggest decision will be whether he can build enough around Jalen and KAT to make it work. We shall see this summer how that shakes out. Enough info on KAT is on display.

Building around Brunson and KAT requires more positional size and shooting, and the simplest answer is moving Hart back to 6th man longterm while adding more size and defensive versatility in his place. It can be done.

It would be great if KAT's flaws (and the team flaws) didn't regularly put us in situations where we need 4th quarter heroics, threes, and a dose of luck.

I don't enjoy this brand of basketball, and hope we're a better defensive team next year.

Mitch and filler for Draymond. Can’t think of a better compliment to KAT defensively.

Or Mitch and Josh for Draymond Buddy and Kuminga

ToddTT wrote:It would be great if KAT's flaws (and the team flaws) didn't regularly put us in situations where we need 4th quarter heroics, threes, and a dose of luck.

I don't enjoy this brand of basketball, and hope we're a better defensive team next year.

It’s only a problem when both towns and JB go into iso mode and their offense is inefficient. But that’s how this team was constructed. It’s up to Thibs to stagger them. In the off season it’s up to Rose to make adjustments (if needed). But if nothing changes with the starting 5 then this all rest on Thibs roster and rotation management (the master chef).

I don’t like it either, especially if you old or older than me. I understand and agree. But that’s how 90% of the nba is today. Blame MJ for being that first main stream single marketing nba player with sneaker deals, commercials and so on. MJ turned himself into a single marketing player who was the face of the team and the nba.

Today’s nba is the residual affects of the MJ era.

DLeethal wrote:Mitch and filler for Draymond. Can’t think of a better compliment to KAT defensively.

Herb Jones

DLeethal wrote:Towns is the second best offensive big in the league and unplayable on defense with Brunson. I’m not sure what to think anymore. I don’t think Thibs does either.

This is kind of where I am.

Regardless of how any of us feel about Kat and or what happens in the future for this team, that 4th qaurter performance will go down as one of the greatest playoff quarters in the history of this franchise.

Uptown wrote:Regardless of how any of us feel about Kat and or what happens in the future for this team, that 4th qaurter performance will go down as one of the greatest playoff quarters in the history of this franchise.

its superstar play. The defense is an issue. I get it, but his size and athleticism and utterly elite offensive skill set make him a menace. It's up to Thibs and the crew to find a way to ride that. Last night boy did they.

Jokic/Murray won a title and took OKC to 7 games which IMO is wild.

Brunson/KAT are elite scores. Not good, like NBA top 10 guys. Question is can they close together and so far it's looking good. I think it's on Leon now to build the bench/depth so we can lighten their minutes stagger their floor time and close games with 2 guys nobody can stop and 3 of the best defensive guys in the league.

We have two all NBA guys surrounded by three good defense guys. OG should be all NBA defense. Man is a "demon"
If not Hart, then Mitch. This is what we got this year.
We are seeing chemistry matters and growth of it happens. Is it enough to get to finals?
The confusion on Defense might be a growth sign not regression. How can I tell? In the the fucking ECF's!!!!!
KAT gained some durability this year. Offense and Rebounding good career year!
If he was a better defender, he might have an MVP to his name or some top 5 career wise.
We got him basically for two free agent signings that also served us well in DDV and Randle. Both were far from perfect either.
KAT fills a big salary but its also why we got him at a somewhat discount.
Last night he did was stars do. Carried his team to an important win.
Lets deal with next season when this one is over.
Fuck 36 year old Draymond green. Leon and Co. need to find some good up and coming talent like they have in the past. Maybe they on our bench. Maybe we trade, maybe we get creative in other ways.

This team was not build on the obvious/starphuck. It was built on seeing things most of us could not.

martin wrote:

DLeethal wrote:Mitch and filler for Draymond. Can’t think of a better compliment to KAT defensively.

Herb Jones

I’m with it. Taller Nesmith?

Uptown wrote:Regardless of how any of us feel about Kat and or what happens in the future for this team, that 4th qaurter performance will go down as one of the greatest playoff quarters in the history of this franchise.

His game 3 shots vs DET were massive as well in a critical game we had to win. What’s crazy is how they’ve been overshadowed by so many wild plays that followed them.