Knicks · We need an upgrade at PF! (page 3)

HofstraBBall wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Philc1 wrote:We have our PF for the next 10 years his name is Towns

yup. Except he plays center. So there's that.

OG is the 4. When he got the bag and Jules didnt say "sure I'll play for half of what my peers make" OG became the 4 and Jules became a lesson in asset management.

But will he if we are to match up against the best?
He didn’t in Minny?

Fish, always the optimist. Respect.
OG (my new fave) at 4 may work. But then who is at the 3?

he was the POA defender on Joker in the playoffs and was very good. It's part of what upset Sota fans about the trade so much "KAT finally got THERE and..."

I think we see Thibs unlock another level in another vet w/ KAT.

I have always thought of Mikal/Josh as interchangeable at the 2/3.

I dont know how it all plays out but my optimism is really coming from the roster makeup and talent.

I kind of like the 3 wing logic to rationalize Hart/Bridges/OG.

Now, I didn’t really like OG on Siakam. Didn’t love him on Embiid.

I do think the lineup looks like Brunson/Bridges/Hart/OG/KAT with a lot of ability to switch.

Payne/Deuce/Shamet/Achiuwa to get a lot of minutes after the starting 5.

Pretty comfortable with our depth.

EwingsGlass wrote:I kind of like the 3 wing logic to rationalize Hart/Bridges/OG.

Now, I didn’t really like OG on Siakam. Didn’t love him on Embiid.

I do think the lineup looks like Brunson/Bridges/Hart/OG/KAT with a lot of ability to switch.

Payne/Deuce/Shamet/Achiuwa to get a lot of minutes after the starting 5.

Pretty comfortable with our depth.

That's where I'm at. As far as depth goes, don't forget the Knicks traded seldom used Bogdanovic for 36 minutes a night of Mikal. One thing I have noticed is that on defense it seems like there are also positions, point of attack, rim protection, and then 3 switchable wings. It looks like the effort is to get Bridges or McBride on whoever has the ball regardless of size or position. We're a always going to think of pg, sg, sf, pf, and c bit I don't think that's how coaches see it anymore.

gradyandrew wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:I kind of like the 3 wing logic to rationalize Hart/Bridges/OG.

Now, I didn’t really like OG on Siakam. Didn’t love him on Embiid.

I do think the lineup looks like Brunson/Bridges/Hart/OG/KAT with a lot of ability to switch.

Payne/Deuce/Shamet/Achiuwa to get a lot of minutes after the starting 5.

Pretty comfortable with our depth.

That's where I'm at. As far as depth goes, don't forget the Knicks traded seldom used Bogdanovic for 36 minutes a night of Mikal. One thing I have noticed is that on defense it seems like there are also positions, point of attack, rim protection, and then 3 switchable wings. It looks like the effort is to get Bridges or McBride on whoever has the ball regardless of size or position. We're a always going to think of pg, sg, sf, pf, and c bit I don't think that's how coaches see it anymore.

I mean, watching Edwards guard Brunson, you have to be correct. 7' wingspan point of attack is a thing.

HofstraBBall wrote:So Rose got me my upgrade at PG. How I remember the many Franky threads. Good memories. JB has been incredible. Top in league. Thought IQ would be it but he may be destined for a Lou Williams like legacy. I preferred a taller PG but JB cannot do anything wrong right now!

Wanted an upgrade at SG. Grimes fans needed a reality check. Thought/think Divo was it but okay let’s see how much better Bridges is and if we can keep him at a decent price. Better defender thus far. Which I like. Even though Divo had a better longer contract, established chemistry and did a great job last year I am not bitter), let’s give the new Cat crew a chance.

Wanted Rose to move on from RJ and his shooting inconsistencies. He did. Got us a pricey Mr. Glass who when healthy can hit a corner three better than anyone and can shut down all who dare try to score against him. Legend has it. Despite the jokes, IF healthy, can’t argue we are a better defensive team with him.

We needed a stretch 5. Cuz this is the new fashion trend of the NBA. And we got to keep up with them Joneses. KAT fits the bill. Solid three point shooter and Curry like aspirations. Well, he definitely has the Curry like salary. Now can he match the Curry impact on winning? But I regress.

Trading my favorite player did get us that stretch 5 but left us with a void of a solid All Star PF.
Thinking Precious fills in nicely despite many, including myself, predicting Josh will get the nod. We all saw his many 46 plus last year and assume Thiba has an obsession. But is he enough? How does that affect the impact on the bench we had with him last year? And won’t post the meme of him bouncing off a big last year. And yes, we do play better with him on the floor.

So who is left out there that may be available?
I am sure there are many click bait blogs that can add several names.

Here is my thought . What if Rose had envisioned more of how Minny looked last year with Gobert? Minny had a great year. We have a Gobert type player in Mr. Robinson. (When healthy) And we all know how much Thiba likes his defense. Moving KAT to PF when MR is healthy would solve the upgrade need at PF, strengthen the bench with Precious, Hart, Deuce, Shamet, Payne/Kolek?
Or, do we leave our Seven foot SG at the 5 and trade Mitch for blog candidate number 1! Leaving a void again at backup C?

Just a thought. And another way to show my disapproval for letting Randle and Divo go!

So my thinking and Minny’s thinking of KAT at 4 is not looking so crazy.
Feel things will improve once Mitch is back.
Some have a short memory regarding Mitch’s value.
So far, my view Bridges was not worth it is valid. As I knew from watching many Nets and Suns games.
Did warn of how some would turn on those soft long threes from KAT when we are losing.

However, still don’t get the early pessimism.
We have no bench due to injuries.
Defensive rotations don’t happen perfectly overnight with two new players in a lineup.
KAT has been tougher to hoop.
Bridges, can’t trust that ugly shot but always liked his midrange.
Let’s just wait till trade deadline.

Then hope we get an upgrade at PF or C and move KAT to 4.

This team will look a lot different once Mitch is back in January but in these days and times, people lack patience and want a championship contender, now. Trading for KAT and Bridges, gives us a 3-4 year window to compete at a high level.

Speaking of lacking patience, I do believe there is a PF that may be gettable that can help immediately and can guard centers with Towns on the court with him. The player I'm speaking of is Isaiah Stewart. He is an elite shot blocker for a player that's only 6'8. He is a pretty good rebounder and he would add a grittiness to this team. One problem with Stewart is that he does not shoot the 3, so spacing will suffer, but it would be a trade off for some interior help on the defensive end.

The Pistons have Duren at the 5, so I am not sure what they would want from us in a trade (if they have no interest in Mitch). May need to be a 3 team trade.

Uptown wrote:This team will look a lot different once Mitch is back in January but in these days and times, people are lack patience and want a championship contender, now. Trading for KAT and Bridges, gives us a 3-4 year window to compete at a high level.

Speaking of lacking patience, I do believe there is a PF that may be gettable that can help immediately and can guard centers with Towns on the court with him. The player I'm speaking of is Isaiah Stewart. He is an elite shot blocker for a player that's only 6'8. He is a pretty good rebounder and he would add a grittiness to this team. One problem with Stewart is that he does not shoot the 3, so spacing will suffer, some but it would be a trade off for some interior help on the defensive end.

The Pistons have Duren at the 5, so I am not sure what they would want from us in a trade (if they have no interest in Mitch). May need to be a 3 team trade.

Like Stewart but agree he allows defenders to clog middle.
Gotta say that the move I believe would have benefited the most was for Turner a few years back.
A lineup of Turner,Randle, PG, Deuce and JB would have been interesting.

Do agree that patience is needed. Especially with so many injuries on our bench and without Mitch
We will know what this team really is by February

WE are short two players. Precious and Cam. Shamet was here because he lost his shooting touch. We don't know if it came back.
Mitch will help. How, when and where we can only guess.
Who would we have traded for Turner and how would it have effected our current team. One or both of RJ and IQ? Did They want Mitch?
A lot of things might have looked different
and you want to pay Randle the big bag going forward? What does the bench look like? Could Turner play for Thibs? What does our cap look like?

Turner had a nice game the other night. I get that.

If Toppin is never to see the light of day is he here just to fill salary? I get the kids not playing as Thibs might not deem them worthy and he wants to win.
We are patient, but still second guessing Thibs? Comes with the territory. In Thibs and Leon we trust.

Have to stay under the Apron. Milwaukee cannot combine contracts to do a trade. They in the back end of their 5 year window and have a chip so being in a pickle was worth it.
We don't have the depth yet. When? Can't tell you but its just been 9 games.

HofstraBBall wrote:

martin wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

Uptown wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:So Rose got me my upgrade at PG. How I remember the many Franky threads. Good memories. JB has been incredible. Top in league. Thought IQ would be it but he may be destined for a Lou Williams like legacy. I preferred a taller PG but JB cannot do anything wrong right now!

Wanted an upgrade at SG. Grimes fans needed a reality check. Thought/think Divo was it but okay let’s see how much better Bridges is and if we can keep him at a decent price. Better defender thus far. Which I like. Even though Divo had a better longer contract, established chemistry and did a great job last year I am not bitter), let’s give the new Cat crew a chance.

Wanted Rose to move on from RJ and his shooting inconsistencies. He did. Got us a pricey Mr. Glass who when healthy can hit a corner three better than anyone and can shut down all who dare try to score against him. Legend has it. Despite the jokes, IF healthy, can’t argue we are a better defensive team with him.

We needed a stretch 5. Cuz this is the new fashion trend of the NBA. And we got to keep up with them Joneses. KAT fits the bill. Solid three point shooter and Curry like aspirations. Well, he definitely has the Curry like salary. Now can he match the Curry impact on winning? But I regress.

Trading my favorite player did get us that stretch 5 but left us with a void of a solid All Star PF.
Thinking Precious fills in nicely despite many, including myself, predicting Josh will get the nod. We all saw his many 46 plus last year and assume Thiba has an obsession. But is he enough? How does that affect the impact on the bench we had with him last year? And won’t post the meme of him bouncing off a big last year. And yes, we do play better with him on the floor.

So who is left out there that may be available?
I am sure there are many click bait blogs that can add several names.

Here is my thought . What if Rose had envisioned more of how Minny looked last year with Gobert? Minny had a great year. We have a Gobert type player in Mr. Robinson. (When healthy) And we all know how much Thiba likes his defense. Moving KAT to PF when MR is healthy would solve the upgrade need at PF, strengthen the bench with Precious, Hart, Deuce, Shamet, Payne/Kolek?
Or, do we leave our Seven foot SG at the 5 and trade Mitch for blog candidate number 1! Leaving a void again at backup C?

Just a thought. And another way to show my disapproval for letting Randle and Divo go!

All of this to say, you are still suffering the after-effects of us trading your fav player...

With that said, I don't think we need abother PF, we just need a Healthy Mitch back in the rotation. I love the versatility the Kat trade adss to this roster. We can match uo with teams llike the Celts, go 5-out and pull KP from the basket on the defensive end. Then against a team like Philly, we can go big with Kat at the 4 and let Mitch use his size and 6 fouls to slow down Embiid.

Until Mitch gets back, I think OG and Precious can hold down the 4 spot. And for those concerned about OG banging with PF's, keep in mind, the Davis brothers, Oak, Mahorn, and Kevin Willis types are extinct for the most part. Jayson Tatum, Paul George/Cam Martin, Evan Mobley, Siakiam are the new 4's.

Agree with most of this.
Point was that IF MR is back and healthy, we could have a lineup of
MR
KAT
OG
Bridges
JB.

Think that is tough defensively, not only at the wing but also at the rim.
You would still need a backup at C. Simms? Maybe
Backup at 4. Precious? Maybe.
However, If Knicks plan truly is to have KAT at 5, then Mitch may be flipped for a PF that may be versatile . Just feel that is an obvious hole if you just traded Randle.

I would be okay to wait and see. As I was prior to trade. But FO has shown they are going for it so having a couple of guys who normally don’t play PF seems short of what a team going for it would want. IMO

Why do you need another backup center when you have both Mitch and KAT?

If you start MR at 5 and KAT at 4 you would need a backup for both positions.
Thibs mentioned in one of his interviews, after the trade when asked about MR, that he likes that MR provides offensive rebounding that is needed and rim protection that he likes. Not sure that meant as a backup or alongside KAT.

Are you thinking , when MR is healthy, he will just be a back up?
If that is the case, who starts at 4? Which takes me back to concerns mentioned above.

My suggestion for MR to start at 5 and KAT at 4 is now being seen with our lack of rim protection

However, my fear, after watching KAT rotational defense for a half year, would be that our three point defensive rotations would still suffer. IMO, our best three point defense would be OG, Hart, Bridges and Deuce paired with MR.

How about an upgrade at backup C?

The Chat:

https://www.youtube.com/live/U6d8mlw8FX8

The Knicks willingness to listen to trade offers for Jericho Sims is a reflection on how positively Ariel Hukporti is viewed throughout the organization, per insider .@IanBegley

Begley on how the Knicks view Ariel Hukporti amid Jericho Sims trade buzz:

"I do think it does reflect something on Ariel Hukporti. I think that if you talk to people who have been in touch with the team, they really like Hukporti. They like what he can do, they like his athleticism, and his size. Whether he can step in there and be a regular in this rotation, I'm not sure. But I do think that the willingness to listen on Jericho Sims [In Trades] is a reflection a bit on Ariel Hukporti and how [the Knicks] feel about him. Hukporti is viewed positively throughout the organization and so we'll see where that shakes out with Jericho.”

Javascript is not enabled or there was problem with the URL: https://www.twitter.com/TheKnicksRecap/status/1879276449431240882

Click here to view the Tweet

That makes a lot of sense. Quite honestly Sims has progressed minimally in 4 yrs. His defense has improved somehwat, but his offense has gone from Stone Age to Precambrian.

Hukporti does more of what Thibs likes. He has the size to dominate the boards and the effort level and awareness for rim protection. He just needs to adjust to NBA speed and learn the league a bit more.

On offense it looks like Hukporti is more natural at the high post, both setting screens and also moving the ball. Not Hartenstein level, but we've seen flashes. He also has some scoring ability in the paint from what we've seen.

None of the above means he's ready to play this year but he's probably more well equipped to be Center #3 and also as a future development player.

VDesai wrote:That makes a lot of sense. Quite honestly Sims has progressed minimally in 4 yrs. His defense has improved somehwat, but his offense has gone from Stone Age to Precambrian.

Hukporti does more of what Thibs likes. He has the size to dominate the boards and the effort level and awareness for rim protection. He just needs to adjust to NBA speed and learn the league a bit more.

On offense it looks like Hukporti is more natural at the high post, both setting screens and also moving the ball. Not Hartenstein level, but we've seen flashes. He also has some scoring ability in the paint from what we've seen.

None of the above means he's ready to play this year but he's probably more well equipped to be Center #3 and also as a future development player.

Gonna go out on a not really far out limb and say we will see more of Huk after the trade deadline and if Sims is gone and Precious is not the small ball C. Or matchups.

martin wrote:

VDesai wrote:That makes a lot of sense. Quite honestly Sims has progressed minimally in 4 yrs. His defense has improved somehwat, but his offense has gone from Stone Age to Precambrian.

Hukporti does more of what Thibs likes. He has the size to dominate the boards and the effort level and awareness for rim protection. He just needs to adjust to NBA speed and learn the league a bit more.

On offense it looks like Hukporti is more natural at the high post, both setting screens and also moving the ball. Not Hartenstein level, but we've seen flashes. He also has some scoring ability in the paint from what we've seen.

None of the above means he's ready to play this year but he's probably more well equipped to be Center #3 and also as a future development player.

Gonna go out on a not really far out limb and say we will see more of Huk after the trade deadline and if Sims is gone and Precious is not the small ball C. Or matchups.

I'm never a "start the rookie" kind of guy. That said, from what I've seen of Huk, he gives a lot more TODAY as the backup C than Sims. I would put him in that role and let him get his 8-10 mins a night there. You know he's going to get a block and some put backs, and probably an assist or two. His touch/hands are WAY better than Sims.

Panos wrote:

martin wrote:

VDesai wrote:That makes a lot of sense. Quite honestly Sims has progressed minimally in 4 yrs. His defense has improved somehwat, but his offense has gone from Stone Age to Precambrian.

Hukporti does more of what Thibs likes. He has the size to dominate the boards and the effort level and awareness for rim protection. He just needs to adjust to NBA speed and learn the league a bit more.

On offense it looks like Hukporti is more natural at the high post, both setting screens and also moving the ball. Not Hartenstein level, but we've seen flashes. He also has some scoring ability in the paint from what we've seen.

None of the above means he's ready to play this year but he's probably more well equipped to be Center #3 and also as a future development player.

Gonna go out on a not really far out limb and say we will see more of Huk after the trade deadline and if Sims is gone and Precious is not the small ball C. Or matchups.

I'm never a "start the rookie" kind of guy. That said, from what I've seen of Huk, he gives a lot more TODAY as the backup C than Sims. I would put him in that role and let him get his 8-10 mins a night there. You know he's going to get a block and some put backs, and probably an assist or two. His touch/hands are WAY better than Sims.

We should start him tonight, give Cat and his thumb a rest.

Panos wrote:

martin wrote:

VDesai wrote:That makes a lot of sense. Quite honestly Sims has progressed minimally in 4 yrs. His defense has improved somehwat, but his offense has gone from Stone Age to Precambrian.

Hukporti does more of what Thibs likes. He has the size to dominate the boards and the effort level and awareness for rim protection. He just needs to adjust to NBA speed and learn the league a bit more.

On offense it looks like Hukporti is more natural at the high post, both setting screens and also moving the ball. Not Hartenstein level, but we've seen flashes. He also has some scoring ability in the paint from what we've seen.

None of the above means he's ready to play this year but he's probably more well equipped to be Center #3 and also as a future development player.

Gonna go out on a not really far out limb and say we will see more of Huk after the trade deadline and if Sims is gone and Precious is not the small ball C. Or matchups.

I'm never a "start the rookie" kind of guy. That said, from what I've seen of Huk, he gives a lot more TODAY as the backup C than Sims. I would put him in that role and let him get his 8-10 mins a night there. You know he's going to get a block and some put backs, and probably an assist or two. His touch/hands are WAY better than Sims.

Sims would be a hell of a football player. Just don’t know which position. It’s the undersized forwards that transfer well to the NFL. Sims is 6’9 I believe. But he’s always the most athletic on the floor. Someone will tap into that potential and hopefully his career turns around. I like sims but I like Huk and Precious more.

Tight End but shortly after he'd be a Wide Receiver.

blkexec wrote:

Panos wrote:

martin wrote:

VDesai wrote:That makes a lot of sense. Quite honestly Sims has progressed minimally in 4 yrs. His defense has improved somehwat, but his offense has gone from Stone Age to Precambrian.

Hukporti does more of what Thibs likes. He has the size to dominate the boards and the effort level and awareness for rim protection. He just needs to adjust to NBA speed and learn the league a bit more.

On offense it looks like Hukporti is more natural at the high post, both setting screens and also moving the ball. Not Hartenstein level, but we've seen flashes. He also has some scoring ability in the paint from what we've seen.

None of the above means he's ready to play this year but he's probably more well equipped to be Center #3 and also as a future development player.

Gonna go out on a not really far out limb and say we will see more of Huk after the trade deadline and if Sims is gone and Precious is not the small ball C. Or matchups.

I'm never a "start the rookie" kind of guy. That said, from what I've seen of Huk, he gives a lot more TODAY as the backup C than Sims. I would put him in that role and let him get his 8-10 mins a night there. You know he's going to get a block and some put backs, and probably an assist or two. His touch/hands are WAY better than Sims.

Sims would be a hell of a football player. Just don’t know which position. It’s the undersized forwards that transfer well to the NFL. Sims is 6’9 I believe. But he’s always the most athletic on the floor. Someone will tap into that potential and hopefully his career turns around. I like sims but I like Huk and Precious more.

can't catch a pass, how will he catch a football?
He has the body for a TE for sure.
He'd be a terror at linebacker. Might have to cut back on the weed and let the violence absorb him.

martin wrote:How about an upgrade at backup C?

The Chat:

https://www.youtube.com/live/U6d8mlw8FX8

The Knicks willingness to listen to trade offers for Jericho Sims is a reflection on how positively Ariel Hukporti is viewed throughout the organization, per insider .@IanBegley

Begley on how the Knicks view Ariel Hukporti amid Jericho Sims trade buzz:

"I do think it does reflect something on Ariel Hukporti. I think that if you talk to people who have been in touch with the team, they really like Hukporti. They like what he can do, they like his athleticism, and his size. Whether he can step in there and be a regular in this rotation, I'm not sure. But I do think that the willingness to listen on Jericho Sims [In Trades] is a reflection a bit on Ariel Hukporti and how [the Knicks] feel about him. Hukporti is viewed positively throughout the organization and so we'll see where that shakes out with Jericho.”

Javascript is not enabled or there was problem with the URL: https://www.twitter.com/TheKnicksRecap/status/1879276449431240882

Click here to view the Tweet

Meaning Huk won’t see the floor until after deadline. Knicks would want to put Sims on display to hopefully up his value. Sims had some good minutes. But he still looks very mechanical on offense. May do better with a team that has lower expectations. Thibs is tough on his youngins.

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As good as Josh has been, this speaks to the difference having the right defensive presence next to Towns can do.

starting Precious at the 4 always had it's merits.

As good as Hart has shot the 3 ball this year, he's really not a huge threat and is usually left WIDE OPEN for his looks. So I don't think you lose that much spacing with Precious.

It strengthens our bench.

the biggest loss would be that secondary ballhandler b/c Hart has been our de facto PG much of the season, I guess that's why Thibs really sticks with it.