Off Topic · Yankees Talk thread (page 163)

Hold MLB to the highest quality of standards. Never except anything less ma man.

Let's not forget that those in the past who got caught cheating, they paid dearly. The black sux scandal. Peter Rose betting on the game. And many others. Non of it altered the game like what's been going on today, but it's still all cheating and it should be punished today as it's always been.

I ask my fellow Yankee supporters. Where are your standards?

where are MLB's standards is the question u need to be asking... why single out only a select few players in this whole witch hunt & not focus on the entire game from the very beginning of steroid & ampthetamines use? it's solely political BS.

I been all along criticizing Sosa, McGuire, Bonds, Giambi, Selig, MLB and all the others we known who have been cheating this game all along ma man. I didn't just start this with A-Roid or the Yankees. And let's not forget that our roided stars didn't start in New York. Sheffield, Clems, Giambi and A-Roid were roiding before they came to NY. So I'm not exactly attacking Yankee pride here, but then again, if it was Yankee pride, then I'd be all over it anyway.

How is it political? That's between all of them. Like a bunch of politicians turning each other in. At what point is taking any' muscle enhancers to increase mass, increase strength and increase bat speed, when exactly is it called cheating? There are no smoke and mirrors here. It's very simple. They cheated you and me. They cheated everyone including themselves. I'm talking about each and everyone of them.

Everything I said above is true to the end. The Yankee mates are standing up for A-Roid for coming out and admitting it. But this does not make it all oaky in the end. If A-Roid has any balls like Canseco does, he'll start talking about other things he knows and then and only then will I have any respect for the guy.

I am very insulted by what's been going on. I spoke out on it many, many times for the last ten years now. I am especially insulted for this crap spilling over into Yankee land.

And when I said it was a mistake for the Stienbrenners to step to A-Roids side, instead of trying to immediately void his contract, I really meant it. Now the whole team is forced to step to his aid and what's that going to look like now? Jeets is one of the few who has no comment on the whole situation, because he's one of the few who have integrity and knows' what all of this means for the game and for the Yankees.

Everything I have been complaining about in this game of roids has been driven by one thing and one thing only as far as I'm concerned. Integrity.

As long as people continue to try and hide and defend this shit, then the longer it is going to be drug out. It's up to the fans. Demand integrity in this game of baseball, hold those responsible for ruining it or otherwise, continue to live in denial and pay the ugly price of dragging it out for years and setting a very bad example to the next generation.

I think this is happening because the newer generation doesn't really care about integrity. And MLB knows this, so they let it happen anyway. But they and the players know it's not what most of the fans really wanted. And if there was nothing wrong with it, then why are they lying? Why are they running? They are hiding because they know it's not right.

All of you know my position on this subject and I have basically said everything there was to say about it. Everything that had' to be said about it. A-Roid was my last chance to support baseball (and when I saw him saying bonds was the greatest, then I knew he was full of it), but now I feel like I have been totally lied to. Dispute me if anyone wants to, but you'll eventually know what is wrong and accept it as I did and demand integrity.

And as far as this being a witch hunt, that is not even a subject. He's already admitted it and now he's trying to blame his cousin? Look at A-Roid. He's trying to find fault. He's now running and has nowhere to hide. Have any of you's asked if this kind of player is even worth 250 million to begin with? And now that's he's been found out (officially) do you still think he's worth all that money?

Simple answer: Hell no!

What kind of tone is A-Roid taking in his interviews? Does it sound anything like this:


'I am sorry to all those I have hurt, I am sorry for hurting baseball. I ask that you forgive me. I am not now, nor will I ever take any kind of enhancer again. I will accept all criticisms and I will accept how I will be judged in the future and will accept my punishment. And if there is anything that I can do to help bring integrity back to the game, I would gladly do it. I'm not going to make any excuses for my actions or blame anyone else for what I have done, for I have only myself to blame. I would also like to say to the young kids out there in the world not' to use steroids. They are dangerous and should not be messed with. Play the game the way it was meant to be played. I'd also like to quote someone who played very hard in this game. Mickey Mantle who once said play like me, but don't be like me.

I ask fans to forgive me for what I have done. Again, I am sincerely sorry.'

That would be a start in the name of integrity. They should all just come out and say it. Take the punishment and move on. Selig should be totally replaced immediately. Dragged in the street if possible.

You do seem to be singling out A-Rod, though. Why do you not have a negative nickname for Pettitte, for example? It seems like with a lot of people this is just another chance to displace their anger at A-Rod over not performing well in the playoffs. Why spend more than one minute talking about A-Rod without spending equal time on the hundred other players who tested positive? I'm actually much more inclined to forgive and move on (genuinely move on) when the player admits it and apologizes than when the player doesn't like Clemens, Bonds, McGuire and hundreds of others.

isnt it true, however, that we only know of these recent roiders b/c there are now tests in place to detect. how do we know that those in the past were so "pure". i'm not indicting any of the old time hall of famers, but there simply werent any tests back then to detect anything. yes, i understand that steroids are a 'newish' phenomenon, but what about the players in the 50's, 60's etc. who were poppin amphetamines or some other 'speed' type drugs to endure the rigors of the long season. just b/c mlb wasnt testing for that stuff back then, doesnt mean it didnt happen. so, that's why i look at all this stuff today with a grain of salt. i think its dumb to take the stuff (although i do undrstand the pressure some of these guys felt and their need to want to be the best, thus takin the stuff to enhance their performance), but at the same time, how do we know and how can we compare these players to old time players when we know nothing about the stuff the old timers took to be better??? i mean, i remember seeing players in old clips smoking cigs btwn innings in the dugout - imagine if cc lit one up btwn innings this year, he would be CRUSHED by the ny media. back in the day, it was funny and almost expected. just funny how our society is....

i also find it funny how only certain people's roid usage are leeked from all these confidential gov't reports, committees, hearings, etc. and not others. talk about playing up an agenda. it all stinks of 'witchhunt' to me - from the govt who ran these 'investigations' to the players who took the stuff. so, i dont take a harsh stance towards any of these players and dont judge them, b/c i know i havent been perfect all my life - people make mistakes and baseball is a sport afterall, so lets keep it in perspective before we go joudging people's character and saying all these crazy/nasty things about them. to me, the real judge of charactter is how the player reacts after they've been caught.

ps: all i want is for my yankees to win a championship and, now that everything is out in the open, act like real men, fess up and move on.

my opinion only.....thoughts?

thoughts? sure...you're still a pansy...

Posted by Bonn1997:

You do seem to be singling out A-Rod, though. Why do you not have a negative nickname for Pettitte, for example? It seems like with a lot of people this is just another chance to displace their anger at A-Rod over not performing well in the playoffs. Why spend more than one minute talking about A-Rod without spending equal time on the hundred other players who tested positive? I'm actually much more inclined to forgive and move on (genuinely move on) when the player admits it and apologizes than when the player doesn't like Clemens, Bonds, McGuire and hundreds of others.

I take look at Pettitte and A-Rod differently than I do with Clemens, Bonds and Mark. At least Pettitte and A-Rod confessed and sounded sincerely sorry for what they did. The other 3 lied under oath and were lying babies until the bitter end. Just confess man. It may hurt people's perception of you, but now at least you can try and mend the wounds. A-Rod and Pettitte took the high road.

With that said, I still think A-Rod needs to stop being a pansy on the field when it comes to performing in big moments and in the playoffs. I have every right to feel that.

I think all this disingenuous indignation and singling out one player out of hundreds is total bullshit. If a few players are dirty, kill the players. If the entire sport is dirty, kill the caretakers of the sport. That would be Bud "Don't Blame Me" Selig, Donald Fehr and Gene Orza of the Player's Union and the owners. They all enjoyed and profited greatly from the steroid aided rebirth after the 94 strike and chose to turn a blind eye to the problem.

Having said that, I think ARod should up the dosage come playoff time.

Posted by 4949:

What kind of tone is A-Roid taking in his interviews? Does it sound anything like this:


'I am sorry to all those I have hurt, I am sorry for hurting baseball. I ask that you forgive me. I am not now, nor will I ever take any kind of enhancer again. I will accept all criticisms and I will accept how I will be judged in the future and will accept my punishment. And if there is anything that I can do to help bring integrity back to the game, I would gladly do it. I'm not going to make any excuses for my actions or blame anyone else for what I have done, for I have only myself to blame. I would also like to say to the young kids out there in the world not' to use steroids. They are dangerous and should not be messed with. Play the game the way it was meant to be played. I'd also like to quote someone who played very hard in this game. Mickey Mantle who once said play like me, but don't be like me.

I ask fans to forgive me for what I have done. Again, I am sincerely sorry.'

That would be a start in the name of integrity. They should all just come out and say it. Take the punishment and move on. Selig should be totally replaced immediately. Dragged in the street if possible.

i thought his apology sounded a lot like that... he apologized to his fans, his team & his teammates, he made no excuses, he accepted full responsibility for his stupid mistake & asked that he be judged from this day forward by his fans & by baseball... what more do u want?

i wonder what the reaction would be if it came out that Jorge Posada, Mariano Rivera or Derek Jeter had used PED's at some point during their careers? would Yankee fans view that differently than they do ARod's admission here? i have a feeling they would.

Posted by TMS:

i wonder what the reaction would be if it came out that Jorge Posada, Mariano Rivera or Derek Jeter had used PED's at some point during their careers? would Yankee fans view that differently than they do ARod's admission here? i have a feeling they would.

That's what I was getting at with the idea of displacing (or redirecting) anger that is actually simply the result of poor performance in a very small sample of playoff at bats.

Posted by Allanfan20:

Posted by Bonn1997:

You do seem to be singling out A-Rod, though. Why do you not have a negative nickname for Pettitte, for example? It seems like with a lot of people this is just another chance to displace their anger at A-Rod over not performing well in the playoffs. Why spend more than one minute talking about A-Rod without spending equal time on the hundred other players who tested positive? I'm actually much more inclined to forgive and move on (genuinely move on) when the player admits it and apologizes than when the player doesn't like Clemens, Bonds, McGuire and hundreds of others.

I take look at Pettitte and A-Rod differently than I do with Clemens, Bonds and Mark. At least Pettitte and A-Rod confessed and sounded sincerely sorry for what they did. The other 3 lied under oath and were lying babies until the bitter end. Just confess man. It may hurt people's perception of you, but now at least you can try and mend the wounds. A-Rod and Pettitte took the high road..

I agree but I bet that if Clemens came out of retirement to join the Yankees, he'd be treated much more kindly by the majority of fans than A-Rod will be.

Posted by Bonn1997:

Posted by TMS:

i wonder what the reaction would be if it came out that Jorge Posada, Mariano Rivera or Derek Jeter had used PED's at some point during their careers? would Yankee fans view that differently than they do ARod's admission here? i have a feeling they would.

That's what I was getting at with the idea of displacing (or redirecting) anger that is actually simply the result of poor performance in a very small sample of playoff at bats.

all i know is that ARod shouldn't be treated any differently than Jason Giambi was treated after he confessed... but u know that won't be the case because ARod sells news stories & he's the guy that people love to hate regardless if we're talking about his personal life or his use of PED's.

You gotta love the media. First they cry out that ARod needs to come out and admit he used steroids. So he comes out in a press conference and admits to 3 years worth of usage and takes questions for over 30 minutes. About 10 seconds after the press conference is over, the media is killing him for not admitting enough, not being apologetic enough and for not saying what they would have wanted him to say. All while the people most responsible for rampant drug use in baseball sit in their ivory towers.

Posted by islesfan:

You gotta love the media. First they cry out that ARod needs to come out and admit he used steroids. So he comes out in a press conference and admits to 3 years worth of usage and takes questions for over 30 minutes. About 10 seconds after the press conference is over, the media is killing him for not admitting enough, not being apologetic enough and for not saying what they would have wanted him to say. All while the people most responsible for rampant drug use in baseball sit in their ivory towers.

i can't stand that little fudgepacking poindexter Buster Olney... i swear i'm pretty sure that guy got his fair share of wedgies back in the day from jocks & he's exacting his revenge by any means necessary now.

more disturbing news about ARod's connection to PEDs:

A-Rod's pal, the tainted trainer: Steroid-linked friend is banned by every MLB team

BY Mark Feinsand In Tampa, Christian Red In Santo Domingo, Dominican Republic, and Michael O'Keeffe, Ian Begley, Teri Thompson, Jim Rich and Nathaniel Vinton In New York
DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITERS

Updated Friday, February 20th 2009, 11:24 AM
Antonelli/News

Embattled Yankee Alex Rodriguez has had a long relationship with a steroid-linked trainer who's been banned from major league clubhouses, four independent sources told the Daily News.

Angel Presinal, who was banned from private areas of every MLB ballpark after an October 2001 incident involving an unmarked gym bag full of steroids, has been tight with the Yankee slugger dating back to his time with the Texas Rangers, several sources said.

A former New York-area scout says Presinal, whose named surfaced in the Mitchell Report, was with Rodriguez in New York and Miami as recently as this past fall.

MLB has warned players to stay away from him.

He has been thrown out of clubhouses in Cleveland, Anaheim and Texas.

"He's an unsavory character," said a source.

Another source said Presinal accompanied A-Rod for the entire 2007 season, staying in the same hotel as the A.L. MVP, but in a separate room with the "cousin" Rodriguez pegged three days ago as his steroid source from 2001-03.

The cousin was identified Thursday as Yuri Sucart.

The source said Rodriguez avoided being seen in public with Presinal.

"He was around Alex in 2007," the source said of Presinal. "Every hotel they went to, he stayed in the same room with Yuri. You would never see Alex with [Presinal]. They would meet in one of their rooms."

The Mitchell Report, released in December 2007, described the investigation that followed the 2001 incident at a Toronto airport, first reported by the Daily News in 2006, where Presinal told law enforcement the bag containing drugs belonged to then-Indians star Juan Gonzalez.

Presinal was not around A-Rod and the Yankees during the 2008 season, the source said, but Sucart remained a constant presence around Rodriguez, at home and on the road.

"Yuri is his driver," the source said. "He takes care of him all the time. His clothes, his food; he's with Alex every day."

Yankees general manager Brian Cashman was aware of Presinal's name but said that the exiled trainer had no official ties to the team.

"He's never had any association with the Yankees," Cashman said. "Whether he knows our players or has worked with any of our players, I wouldn't be able to confirm that."

A-Rod agent Scott Boras would not comment on his client's relationship with Presinal, who runs a gym at the Palacio del los Deportes in Santo Domingo. Presinal also did not return multiple calls.

"Several people have warned Alex about this guy," said a second source.

MLB began monitoring Presinal's relationships with players after the bag containing five ampules of anabolic steroids, the anabolic drug clenbuterol and hypodermic needles, was seized by the Canadian Border Service Agency in 2001.

Presinal was traveling with the Cleveland Indians, where he was Gonzalez's personal trainer at the time.

Agents notified Toronto police and Cleveland personnel, and they allowed the bag to be shipped to the Westin Harbour Castle Hotel, where the club was staying, to see who claimed it.

A border agency seizure report said the man who picked up the bag was Presinal, then 48, a fitness trainer to the Dominican Republic's national basketball and boxing teams and the World Baseball Classic team.

In addition to A-Rod, Presinal has worked with some of the game's biggest stars: Juan Gonzalez, Pedro Martinez, David Ortiz, Vladimir Guerrero, Bartolo Colon, Miguel Tejada, Adrian Beltre, Moises Alou, Jose Guillen, Ervin Santana, Ruben Sierra, Francisco Cordero, Jose Mesa and Juan Guzman, among others.

At the time of the Toronto incident, an emotional Presinal denied any association with steroids.

"I work with [young players] so they can become superstars. You can see how hard these players work. It's all clean work. And I always tell these kids that if they have a medical problem, to be responsible. Don't just talk to any doctor. Make sure you be careful. Don't get mixed up with any steroids or other stuff."

The seizure report said Presinal claimed the bag and everything in it belonged to Gonzalez, then an outfielder for the Indians and later a teammate of Rodriguez's in Texas.

Agents questioned both men for four hours before deciding they didn't have enough evidence to link the bag to either of them. Gonzalez and Presinal were allowed to go free, and the bag was confiscated.

MLB did an investigation after the bag was seized and banned Presinal from any area in a ballpark not open to the public.

"The Canadians [said] they don't have enough information to proceed criminally, for reasons that still escape us," Rob Manfred, MLB's senior vice president for business and labor, told The News in 2006.

MLB still monitors Presinal's whereabouts.

Steroids are legal in the Dominican Republic, but the U.S. can withhold visas from baseball players implicated in steroid use.

i don't believe for a second that ARod was fully truthful about the extent of his steroid use, but whatever... i also don't believe players when they vehemently deny ever using the stuff anymore either... so many players have been found out that previously were outspoken against players who used the stuff it's comical by now.

btw, i wonder how the media will jump on some of those other names named in this article that have been linked w/this Presinal character? my guess is there won't be any reaction other than sensationalizing ARod's connection... guys like David Ortiz, Pudge, Pedro, Vlad, Ervin Santana & Francisco Cordero won't even get a question on this issue cuz they're not Yankees... HYPOCRISY!!!

mark melancon is on his way. btw, did i tell you guys that the yanks have the best bullpen in baseball?

Posted by djsunyc:

mark melancon is on his way. btw, did i tell you guys that the yanks have the best bullpen in baseball?

Middle Relievers are sketchy DJ - usually when one has a good year, the next year he struggles. I will temper my excitement on the pen until we're in June.

Although, sometimes you find that special guy who is has such dirty stuff and is such a good reliever that it probably wouldn't happen (cough joba cough.)

The Yankees organization is stocked with so many good young power arms from the AA level on up. As long as Mo is healthy and anchoring the pen, there's no reason why the Yankees shouldn't have a pretty good bullpen this year. They have a nice balance of veterans and youth and there's always the specter of Joba, especially come playoff time.