Posted by djsunyc:
rivera pitched last night and they wanted him for boston.
but britton? yikes.
come on now... Britton? the guy hasn't pitched for us all year & all of a sudden he's in there w/the game on the line? please don't tell me this loss doesn't matter... every win & loss is huge for us... it could mean the difference between a 1st round home series or not... this is about the 4th time this year that Torre's made some nonsensical bullpen decision to cost us a game... freakin A!
Posted by islesfan:
Normally I think Torre is a moron whenn it comes to managing a bullpen but I don't mind how he managed it the last 2 games. You have to do everything you can to finish games where you have a 3 run lead going into the final 6 outs and you have everyone available.
Tonight they were shorthanded and weren't hitting. I'd much rather Torre use what he has available than force extra work on his most important bullpen guys.
Luis Vizcaino just got done mowing down 2 Jays hitters to end the threat in the 8th... why not keep him in for 1 more? we got Joba ready for Boston in the next game, u can afford to extend Vizco 1 more inning... Britton should not have been in there.
Posted by TMS:
Posted by islesfan:
Normally I think Torre is a moron whenn it comes to managing a bullpen but I don't mind how he managed it the last 2 games. You have to do everything you can to finish games where you have a 3 run lead going into the final 6 outs and you have everyone available.
Tonight they were shorthanded and weren't hitting. I'd much rather Torre use what he has available than force extra work on his most important bullpen guys.
Luis Vizcaino just got done mowing down 2 Jays hitters to end the threat in the 8th... why not keep him in for 1 more? we got Joba ready for Boston in the next game, u can afford to extend Vizco 1 more inning... Britton should not have been in there.
Vizcaino also was just coming back from being shutdown for a week. Why force him to work 2 innings when they need him healthy over the next month?
Britton actually had a really good year at Scranton and deserved a chance in a high pressure situation to see what kind of stuff he has. Apparently he didn't have much tonight. So be it, you take the loss and move on to Boston with a 4 game lead with 16 to play.
I agree that this was the time to see if Britton could help you. There's some spots open at the back of the bullpen and Britton had pitched reasonably well. Here was his chance to earn some trust. Unfortunately he didn't come through.
It's a tough loss, but not a back breaker right now after winning 7 in a row.
Big takeaway is that Kennedy is really looking like a viable option to take a playoff start.
completely disagree... u manage to win the game ur playing & worry about tomorrow's game tomorrow... i can understand not using Joba because of the Joba rules nonsense, but putting Britton in there in that big of a situation was moronic... use Vizco to at least start the 9th & bring in Mo if we get the lead... this is the 2nd time Joe's done this (he used Proctor in a tie game in the 9th earlier in the season instead of bringing in Mo & Proctor proceeded to walk in the winning run)... if we lose the division by 2 games, u won't be saying "take the loss" so casually.
Vizcaino was pitching his first game in several days b/c of various injuries. Hard to extend him to two innings on his first game back. Other relievers are gonna have to come through for the Yankees.
what happened to Farns? why wasn't he available? last game he pitched was 1 inning on the 9th vs KC. is he injured?
Posted by TMS:
completely disagree... u manage to win the game ur playing & worry about tomorrow's game tomorrow... i can understand not using Joba because of the Joba rules nonsense, but putting Britton in there in that big of a situation was moronic... use Vizco to at least start the 9th & bring in Mo if we get the lead... this is the 2nd time Joe's done this (he used Proctor in a tie game in the 9th earlier in the season instead of bringing in Mo & Proctor proceeded to walk in the winning run)... if we lose the division by 2 games, u won't be saying "take the loss" so casually.
Honestly, I could give a crap about the division. I want to make the playoffs playing good ball and being as healthy as possible. There's absolutely no point in going balls to the wall just to get home field. One road win eliminates that disadvantage.
Posted by TMS:
what happened to Farns? why wasn't he available? last game he pitched was 1 inning on the 9th vs KC. is he injured?
He could have. And that's a valid argument if he was available, to let Farnsworth pitch the 9th against the middle of the Jays order and then have Britton pitch the 10th if it were still tied.
nevermind, i was told he had a bad neck.
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by TMS:
completely disagree... u manage to win the game ur playing & worry about tomorrow's game tomorrow... i can understand not using Joba because of the Joba rules nonsense, but putting Britton in there in that big of a situation was moronic... use Vizco to at least start the 9th & bring in Mo if we get the lead... this is the 2nd time Joe's done this (he used Proctor in a tie game in the 9th earlier in the season instead of bringing in Mo & Proctor proceeded to walk in the winning run)... if we lose the division by 2 games, u won't be saying "take the loss" so casually.
Honestly, I could give a crap about the division. I want to make the playoffs playing good ball and being as healthy as possible. There's absolutely no point in going balls to the wall just to get home field. One road win eliminates that disadvantage.
winning the division could mean the difference between starting the postseason w/home field advantage vs. the indians, who we own, or playing the halos in their house, who own us.
Posted by TMS:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by TMS:
completely disagree... u manage to win the game ur playing & worry about tomorrow's game tomorrow... i can understand not using Joba because of the Joba rules nonsense, but putting Britton in there in that big of a situation was moronic... use Vizco to at least start the 9th & bring in Mo if we get the lead... this is the 2nd time Joe's done this (he used Proctor in a tie game in the 9th earlier in the season instead of bringing in Mo & Proctor proceeded to walk in the winning run)... if we lose the division by 2 games, u won't be saying "take the loss" so casually.
Honestly, I could give a crap about the division. I want to make the playoffs playing good ball and being as healthy as possible. There's absolutely no point in going balls to the wall just to get home field. One road win eliminates that disadvantage.
winning the division could mean the difference between starting the postseason w/home field advantage vs. the indians, who we own, or playing the halos in their house, who own us.
You can't plan who you want to play in the playoffs. I understand the Yankees history against the Angels but it's still a bad idea to worry about that until after the playoffs are set.
We dug ourselves too big of a hole early in the season. At this point just making the playoffs and being ready for the playoffs is all we need to focus on.
this team already fought back & is on the track to make the playoffs... now they need to set their sights on winning the division... you don't put it into cruise control now & just hope that u can hang on to make the WC... you do everything u can to try & win the games that you play... winning the division could mean the difference between advancing to the LCS & going home after yet another disappointing 1st round defeat.
Posted by TMS:
this team already fought back & is on the track to make the playoffs... now they need to set their sights on winning the division... you don't put it into cruise control now & just hope that u can hang on to make the WC... you do everything u can to try & win the games that you play... winning the division could mean the difference between advancing to the LCS & going home after yet another disappointing 1st round defeat.
Dude, I'm not saying cruise control at all. I'm just saying that there's no need to go balls out just to win the division if it means that you're going to put undo stress on an already fragile and overworked bullpen.
They did an unbelievable job fighting back and putting themselves in the position that they're in now. They don't have to treat every game as a win or go home situation. They have breathing room that allows them to rest people and try out others.
Winning the division in the past hasn't been all that important the last few years. I'd rather have them be the wild card but going into the playoffs healthy and playing well, than scratch and claw for the division but he at less than full strength going into the playoffs.
If Rivera was available for only one of the next two games, I'd take my chances that we'd be more likely to need him in a game that was currently 1 to 1 in the bottom of the ninth than in a game in Boston that was currently 0 to 0 before the first inning.
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by TMS:
this team already fought back & is on the track to make the playoffs... now they need to set their sights on winning the division... you don't put it into cruise control now & just hope that u can hang on to make the WC... you do everything u can to try & win the games that you play... winning the division could mean the difference between advancing to the LCS & going home after yet another disappointing 1st round defeat.
Dude, I'm not saying cruise control at all. I'm just saying that there's no need to go balls out just to win the division if it means that you're going to put undo stress on an already fragile and overworked bullpen.
They did an unbelievable job fighting back and putting themselves in the position that they're in now. They don't have to treat every game as a win or go home situation. They have breathing room that allows them to rest people and try out others.
Winning the division in the past hasn't been all that important the last few years. I'd rather have them be the wild card but going into the playoffs healthy and playing well, than scratch and claw for the division but he at less than full strength going into the playoffs.
we still got DET breathing down our necks... every game is vital... not just the games we play against the Red Sox... like Bonn says, why manage for tomorrow's game when there's a game there to win TODAY? i don't get that style of managing at all... i guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one.
[Edited by - TMS on 09-14-2007 09:37 AM]
Posted by TMS:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by TMS:
this team already fought back & is on the track to make the playoffs... now they need to set their sights on winning the division... you don't put it into cruise control now & just hope that u can hang on to make the WC... you do everything u can to try & win the games that you play... winning the division could mean the difference between advancing to the LCS & going home after yet another disappointing 1st round defeat.
Dude, I'm not saying cruise control at all. I'm just saying that there's no need to go balls out just to win the division if it means that you're going to put undo stress on an already fragile and overworked bullpen.
They did an unbelievable job fighting back and putting themselves in the position that they're in now. They don't have to treat every game as a win or go home situation. They have breathing room that allows them to rest people and try out others.
Winning the division in the past hasn't been all that important the last few years. I'd rather have them be the wild card but going into the playoffs healthy and playing well, than scratch and claw for the division but he at less than full strength going into the playoffs.
we still got DET breathing down our necks... every game is vital... not just the games we play against the Red Sox... like Bonn says, why manage for tomorrow's game when there's a game there to win TODAY? i don't get that style of managing at all... i guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one.
[Edited by - TMS on 09-14-2007 09:37 AM]
I'm not saying that you shouldn't manage to win every game but you aren't just managing one game. You can't burn out your bullpen for the sake of one win. That's been one of my biggest criticisms of Torre. They have 16 games and hopefully the playoffs to play and pushing the bullpen for a single win is too myopic. You have to plan for longer than a single game until you don't have any games left.
It's the same reasoning for why they gave Posada a night off but nobody questions that, even though they were desperate for offense last night.
Isles, what are your thoughts on Rivera being used to protect 3 run, 1 inning saves but not being used when games are tied in the 9th? This is a pattern with Torre. Might Rivera not have needed the extra rest if he didn't pitch in many 3-run/1 inning save opportunities that the average reliever will protect 98% of the time? Very few other teams have their closer get as high a percentage of the team saves as Rivera gets. They use their closers more wisely.
Posted by Bonn1997:
Isles, what are your thoughts on Rivera being used to protect 3 run, 1 inning saves but not being used when games are tied in the 9th? This is a pattern with Torre. Might Rivera not have needed the extra rest if he didn't pitch in many 3-run/1 inning save opportunities that the average reliever will protect 98% of the time? Very few other teams have their closer get as high a percentage of the team saves as Rivera gets. They use their closers more wisely.
I'm not a fan of using Mo to get 3 run saves but the game 2 nights ago was different. Joba had thrown a lot of pitches and he was in a little bit of trouble after ARod's error. I didn't have a problem with Torre going to Mo there, he was coming in the next inning anyway.
Its not as easy as saying 3 run game vs tie game. There are other factors. They had used up the main parts of their bullpen in that game and therefore they had to have that game. Last night it was tied with a lot of guys unavailable and their bottom 3 guys in the order coming up if they had gotten to extra innings. I wouldn't have used Mo there.
It's a pattern for the whole season (not one specific game) that if it's a save situation, Mariano must be used. Other teams use their closers for about 80% of the team saves. Ours is basically 100%. It's like Joe's top priority is padding Mariano's save stats.
[Edited by - bonn1997 on 09-14-2007 5:25 PM]
Posted by Bonn1997:
It's a pattern for the whole season (not one specific game) that if it's a save situation, Mariano must be used. Other teams use their closers for about 80% of the team saves. Ours is basically 100%. It's like Joe's top priority is padding Mariano's save stats.
[Edited by - bonn1997 on 09-14-2007 5:25 PM]
I agree with you, a lot of times Torre brings in Mo just because it's a chance to get a save. I hate that. I think it's lame to play for statistics like that. As if Mo having a couple fewer saves would make anybody think less of him.
