Posted by TMS:
Posted by Bonn1997:
No, I like them a lot; I just don't fall into the common trap of over-valuing our own prospects (frequently referred to as our "kids," a term that in itself is revealing).
i will say that the longer our kids fail to produce at the ML level, your opposition to passing on Johan gets a lot more warranted... it seems all of our "untouchable prospects" of just a year ago are proving to be a lot more "touchable" as the days go by... Alan Horne just had a disastrous return to AAA & gave up a ton of runs & hits & couldn't get anyone out... we just traded away Tabata for an OFer who over his career hasn't done much at all except for having a great season up to this point... Ian Kennedy has looked like horse crap early this season & Hughes has been severely injury prone.
it's obviously too early to give up on these kids tho... we're just gonna have to cross our fingers that these kids don't end up to be overly hyped busts. (except for Tabata, i hope he's a bust of monumental proportions at this point cuz Nady's not doing anything to impress me so far)
I haven't given up on Hughes or Kennedy by any means either. It's way too early for that. I do think the odds are heavily against either one of them turning into as good a pitcher as Johan though or being as effective combined as Johan. (It's hard to talk about two pitchers combined but I don't expect there to be a point where I'd ever say I'd rather have these two guys than have Johan in his prime.)
at this point i would shift my focus to targetting guys like Tim Hudson or perhaps Roy Oswalt, cuz neither of their teams seem to be going anywhere & they're both making big dollars... if we offer up some of our top prospects we might be able to snag a guy of that nature... both are legit & proven aces & still in their primes... Hudson's a little older at 33 but still has at least 3 or 4 very good years left in him IMHO.
if we can get Grienke tho that would be my ideal... i brought his name up a long time ago, he's the perfect young arm u wanna bring in to build around... put him next to Joba & Wang & u got urself 3 top quality pitchers for the next decade or so.
How stupid is Girardi? He has a guy hitting around .350 against lefties on the bench and he plays Betemit instead? And why was Nady sitting? He's a .330 hitter who just broke out with his first HR as a Yankee.
who knows, maybe Nady wasn't feeling well, or he wanted to get Betemit some playing time... better now than against a better team like the Halos or Rays later i guess... i can't get on Joe Girardi's case too much anymore, he's done a good job of keeping this team together through all the injuries & whatnot.
Horrible lose. So pissed. Rasner pitches fairly decent, Marte doesn't, suprisingly (that was your ballgame right there), and Mo comes in in another non-save situation (say what you want about Michael Kay but he's got something there - Mo is totally different coming in when behind/tied then with the lead, I always thought that - the whole vibe is different, I think even opposing hitters are much more comfortable and relaxed) and gives up that dinger to Huff. Very puzzling loss. And they never hit this kid Cabrera, esp. at the Stadium. What can you do....
this is why u only use Marte as a lefty specialist & u put Rasner back in the pen as a long reliever to add some depth... we need another arm in the rotation, it's obvious... 4 runs in 6 innings is not a quality start... i would be using Veras & Edwar as the 7th inning guys & sometimes into the 8th depending on Farns' ststus... Marte is not the guy i want bridging the gap to Mo.
Why would you use Marte as a lefty specialist when lefties hit him pretty well?
he struck out Ortiz & made him look pretty stupid on 4 pitches, that's why.
Well it looks like that reasoning gave us a big ugly L today. You might want a new criterion for determining who to use against lefties!
Girardi may be doing a good overall job, but tonight he sucked as a manager. Terrible decisions! Loss is mostly on him.
Wilson Betemit sucks and I can't believe he is still on the team. Terrible player.
Mo is great saving, but lately, when he comes in to keep the score close he always gives up a run. Tonight it proved to be the decisive factor.
Melky sucks offensively.
Nady has done nada for us! Zip
Posted by Knicksfan:
Girardi may be doing a good overall job, but tonight he sucked as a manager. Terrible decisions! Loss is mostly on him.
Wilson Betemit sucks and I can't believe he is still on the team. Terrible player.
Mo is great saving, but lately, when he comes in to keep the score close he always gives up a run. Tonight it proved to be the decisive factor.
Melky sucks offensively.
Nady has done nada for us! Zip
Nady's had very few at bats. He's had the equivalent of about one percent of a season! Most MVPs probably have 1 for 11 stretches. I DO agree with everything else you've written though. This loss is on Joe G. like you said. I think he thinks lower batting averages are better than higher averages. That would explain bringing Marte in against lefties, and not using Sexson as a PH.
Posted by Bonn1997:
Well it looks like that reasoning gave us a big ugly L today. You might want a new criterion for determining who to use against lefties!
yeah & it played a huge role in getting us a big fat W the day before... when i see Papi look like a minor leaguer against a guy it tells me he's got good stuff.
Bad 2 games against the Orioles. I had no problem with the loss to the Sox after we already took the first two, but I then fully expected to take 2 out of 3 from the O's. The problem with the Yanks is that are so damn feast or famine offensively, it's really pissing me off.
The big problem is losing these 3 in a row and now have one more game with the O's (atleast Jobs is pitching) until we go play the Angels, who fucking own us.
Bright spot for the night? Hughes 3IP, 0ER. Pavano 2IP, 0ER, 4k.
[Edited by - nyk4ever on 07-29-2008 11:13 PM]
Posted by nyk4ever:
Bad 2 games against the Orioles. I had no problem with the loss to the Sox after we already took the first two, but I then fully expected to take 2 out of 3 from the O's. The problem with the Yanks is that are so damn feast or famine offensively, it's really pissing me off.
The big problem is losing these 3 in a row and now have one more game with the O's (atleast Jobs is pitching) until we go play the Angels, who fucking own us.
Bright spot for the night? Hughes 3IP, 0ER. Pavano 2IP, 0ER, 4k.
[Edited by - nyk4ever on 07-29-2008 11:13 PM]
I think Hughes has learned a little too much from Pavano!
Posted by TMS:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Well it looks like that reasoning gave us a big ugly L today. You might want a new criterion for determining who to use against lefties!
yeah & it played a huge role in getting us a big fat W the day before... when i see Papi look like a minor leaguer against a guy it tells me he's got good stuff.
.500 is really bad when you're trying to catch up in your division race. You can pitch the guy who hitters hit .260 against and I'll pitch the one they hit .190 against. I gaurantee you with a large enough sample I'll come out ahead. I seriously don't get why you care so much about a sample of 1 at bat. If Hideki Irabu has ever struck out Papi (and I'm sure someone can check that), does that mean we should re-sign him to be our lefty specialist? I know you don't believe that and you've gotta have something deeper in mind than this one at bat as your reasoning to go with the more hittable pitcher against lefties.
[Edited by - bonn1997 on 07-29-2008 11:18 PM]
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by nyk4ever:
Bad 2 games against the Orioles. I had no problem with the loss to the Sox after we already took the first two, but I then fully expected to take 2 out of 3 from the O's. The problem with the Yanks is that are so damn feast or famine offensively, it's really pissing me off.
The big problem is losing these 3 in a row and now have one more game with the O's (atleast Jobs is pitching) until we go play the Angels, who fucking own us.
Bright spot for the night? Hughes 3IP, 0ER. Pavano 2IP, 0ER, 4k.
[Edited by - nyk4ever on 07-29-2008 11:13 PM]
I think Hughes has learned a little too much from Pavano!
Let's hope not too much.
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by nyk4ever:
Bad 2 games against the Orioles. I had no problem with the loss to the Sox after we already took the first two, but I then fully expected to take 2 out of 3 from the O's. The problem with the Yanks is that are so damn feast or famine offensively, it's really pissing me off.
The big problem is losing these 3 in a row and now have one more game with the O's (atleast Jobs is pitching) until we go play the Angels, who fucking own us.
Bright spot for the night? Hughes 3IP, 0ER. Pavano 2IP, 0ER, 4k.
[Edited by - nyk4ever on 07-29-2008 11:13 PM]
I think Hughes has learned a little too much from Pavano!
Let's hope not too much.
Posted by TMS:
Posted by VDesai:
We might be getting Zach Grienke for Melky, Coke and some other prospect
dude, if that happens i will be jumping for joy like there's no tomorrow.
Yo VDesai, where did you hear this bro?
Posted by VDesai:
We might be getting Zach Grienke for Melky, Coke and some other prospect
Holy shit. Thats the deal? Thats a great trade when you look at talent.
I will say this though, we better be damn sure that Zach can pitch in NY. Although he seems like a very nice kid, he's had some personal problems in dealing with the attention that a baseball player gets.
Greinke left the Royals spring training camp for personal reasons in late February, 2006.[2] It was later revealed that he was suffering from social anxiety disorder and was having trouble working with others.[3] He reported back to the Royals' spring training facility in Surprise, Arizona, on April 17, where he has been undergoing pitching sessions. He was placed on the 60-day disabled list due to psychological issues and took time away from baseball entirely until returning on a rehab assignment with Wichita.
I would definitely make that trade though.. no doubt.
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by TMS:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Well it looks like that reasoning gave us a big ugly L today. You might want a new criterion for determining who to use against lefties!
yeah & it played a huge role in getting us a big fat W the day before... when i see Papi look like a minor leaguer against a guy it tells me he's got good stuff.
.500 is really bad when you're trying to catch up in your division race. You can pitch the guy who hitters hit .260 against and I'll pitch the one they hit .190 against. I gaurantee you with a large enough sample I'll come out ahead. I seriously don't get why you care so much about a sample of 1 at bat. If Hideki Irabu has ever struck out Papi (and I'm sure someone can check that), does that mean we should re-sign him to be our lefty specialist? I know you don't believe that and you've gotta have something deeper in mind than this one at bat as your reasoning to go with the more hittable pitcher against lefties.
[Edited by - bonn1997 on 07-29-2008 11:18 PM]
Irabu was a righty dude.
& baseball is more than just a game of sample sizes & stats... i know ur proud of your graduate education in that area but sometimes u just gotta watch the games & get a feel of how things play out sometimes... Marte was a very valuable member of the White Sox championship team & helped them win their 1st ever World Championship... looking at his stats u might say to urself "Well he only really had 1 excellent season, 1 slightly above average season, & 2 average to below average seasons while he played there, so he wasn't anything special" but that doesn't make that type of thinking stick when ur talking baseball.
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by VDesai:
We might be getting Zach Grienke for Melky, Coke and some other prospect
Holy shit. Thats the deal? Thats a great trade when you look at talent.
I will say this though, we better be damn sure that Zach can pitch in NY. Although he seems like a very nice kid, he's had some personal problems in dealing with the attention that a baseball player gets.
Greinke left the Royals spring training camp for personal reasons in late February, 2006.[2] It was later revealed that he was suffering from social anxiety disorder and was having trouble working with others.[3] He reported back to the Royals' spring training facility in Surprise, Arizona, on April 17, where he has been undergoing pitching sessions. He was placed on the 60-day disabled list due to psychological issues and took time away from baseball entirely until returning on a rehab assignment with Wichita.
I would definitely make that trade though.. no doubt.
dude, it's not even a question u trade for Greinke... i'd give up Hughes or Kennedy in a heartbeat along w/Melky & Coke for him... maybe even Hughes & Kennedy together if we could nab a stopgap Catcher in the deal... Greinke is an up & coming young stud, it's obvious, & he's signed to very reasonable dollars for the next few years.
