Knicks · Bullish on Deuce (page 13)
Clean wrote:blkexec wrote:"trying to balance winning basketball with youth development is great, except when you’re both losing and not developing your young players."https://dailyknicks.com/2022/02/25/new-y...
This has been my issue since very early on, when it was clear this team wasn't as good as we thought. Whether it's a roster issue or rotation issue, it was clear to me. So why should we play the vets, hurt youth development and lose games at the same time. When in fact, we are in a position to develop youth, and win or lose, it's good for our young guys to play against NBA players and not just in practice. win or lose, it's a learning opportunity for the yoots. It's also a great way to see their value. Cam is due for an extension. Need to know if Cam is worth the long term investment. We need a PG and we have Deuce on the shelf. Need to know if Deuce is a solid starter, bench player or trade asset that will continue to play in the G league until a large trade occurs. Same with Sims. Where does he rank on this team? Is he a starter, bench player or trade asset? So many questions can be addressed prior to the end of the season. This will make our off season moves more accurate, vs shooting in the dark, like we did with Kemba and Fournier.
Just thinking hypothetically, if there was a way to see how Kemba and Fournier fit with Thibs system and with this roster, prior to giving them all this money, would the FO still sign them? Hell no. Gotta see if Cam, Deuce, Sims, etc....are short or long term solutions. For example, what if Deuce is the PG we were looking for, but since we haven't played him, we draft a PG and add a PG in free agency. Then realize Deuce is a keeper. We just created a log jam, similar to when we gave Randle all that money and still used a high pick on Obi. Vs using a high pick on a need (PG or Wing Defender or Center). Starting PF was not a need.
Heres our chance to do better Leon Rose and company. Lets go Thibs. Show me something. Prove me wrong that you are not just a defensive coach that lacks offensive creativity. That you play vets over yoots. Prove me wrong please Leon, that you will give Thibs the green light to play the yoots and not grade him on wins and losses. So that Thibs doesn't feel that pressure to win every game. Maybe he would've pulled RJ out the game sooner? Knowing we have other yoots like Cam who needs the run, especially when the game is out of hand. Development should now be first, wins should be second. Or Play the vets to increase their value, while increasing our draft ranking. Well, if we are losing with vets, their trade value will drop eitherway.
I agree with pretty much everything you said. The youth might sink or swim but it better to know what you have than to not know.
Say it differently. The coaching staff and FO pretty much know what they have cause they see it in practice. YOU need to see it as a fan just to see it with your own eyes.
1. Kemba can't find a buy out scenario. AKA, a team that satisfies his playing time desire and money. Knicks can also use him as expiring contrat next year.
2. How is Derrick? Obviously not great, and possible he won't return for a while, or at all this season.
3. Trade parameters. Whats is available, at what cost, and will it move the needle.
4. What does McBride need if he is running the second team?
5. What does IQ need to do if he is running the second team?
For all we know, we don't know any of the above. Also, is IQ closer to figuring it the phuch out or is McBride ready for some run?
Lets see:
Burks/IQ
Evan/grimes
Randle/Obi
RJ/Reddish
Mitch/Nerlons/Simms
Thats 10 deep.
Ryan A
McBride
samanic?
Kemba (home)
DRose (Injured)
Knicks are developing IQ for more PG duties. He is very young. He is playing and making mistakes. thats developing.
Grimes, rookie.
Obi, 23, second year. Playing.
Reddish, 22, likley in rotation.
Lets not pretend Knicks are not playing yoot. They are. Does it matter why? Injuries happen.
Lets not over think this.
martin wrote:Clean wrote:blkexec wrote:"trying to balance winning basketball with youth development is great, except when you’re both losing and not developing your young players."https://dailyknicks.com/2022/02/25/new-y...
This has been my issue since very early on, when it was clear this team wasn't as good as we thought. Whether it's a roster issue or rotation issue, it was clear to me. So why should we play the vets, hurt youth development and lose games at the same time. When in fact, we are in a position to develop youth, and win or lose, it's good for our young guys to play against NBA players and not just in practice. win or lose, it's a learning opportunity for the yoots. It's also a great way to see their value. Cam is due for an extension. Need to know if Cam is worth the long term investment. We need a PG and we have Deuce on the shelf. Need to know if Deuce is a solid starter, bench player or trade asset that will continue to play in the G league until a large trade occurs. Same with Sims. Where does he rank on this team? Is he a starter, bench player or trade asset? So many questions can be addressed prior to the end of the season. This will make our off season moves more accurate, vs shooting in the dark, like we did with Kemba and Fournier.
Just thinking hypothetically, if there was a way to see how Kemba and Fournier fit with Thibs system and with this roster, prior to giving them all this money, would the FO still sign them? Hell no. Gotta see if Cam, Deuce, Sims, etc....are short or long term solutions. For example, what if Deuce is the PG we were looking for, but since we haven't played him, we draft a PG and add a PG in free agency. Then realize Deuce is a keeper. We just created a log jam, similar to when we gave Randle all that money and still used a high pick on Obi. Vs using a high pick on a need (PG or Wing Defender or Center). Starting PF was not a need.
Heres our chance to do better Leon Rose and company. Lets go Thibs. Show me something. Prove me wrong that you are not just a defensive coach that lacks offensive creativity. That you play vets over yoots. Prove me wrong please Leon, that you will give Thibs the green light to play the yoots and not grade him on wins and losses. So that Thibs doesn't feel that pressure to win every game. Maybe he would've pulled RJ out the game sooner? Knowing we have other yoots like Cam who needs the run, especially when the game is out of hand. Development should now be first, wins should be second. Or Play the vets to increase their value, while increasing our draft ranking. Well, if we are losing with vets, their trade value will drop eitherway.
I agree with pretty much everything you said. The youth might sink or swim but it better to know what you have than to not know.Say it differently. The coaching staff and FO pretty much know what they have cause they see it in practice. YOU need to see it as a fan just to see it with your own eyes.
I understand your point, and I've heard others say the same thing. But disagree and heres why.
Grimes was killing in practice and the coaching staff knew it. But if it wasn't for Covid, we would see a "Free Grimes" thread right next to "Release the Deuce" thread. So lets not forget that.
This tells me it's not about how they look in practice, thats a cover up. Playing time and even rotations are more political now. Again, just my guess, but Kemba and Fournier are FO moves and not Thibs types of players. So I'm sure if Thibs boss says play these guys, Thibs have to play or start those guys. But he doesn't have to play them in the 4th. To me that was the first red flag.
Also, based on your theory (and most people I'm sure), do you really believe Burks is a better PG than Deuce? No. What Burks does thats better than Deuce and it's why Thibs plays him. It's his 6'6 frame and long arms. Something Deuce will never have. Plus he's a vet and Deuce is a second round pick. So that gives Thibs the green light to play his vets over his rooks, which is something he prefers anyway. Especially with Burks since he's a better defender with size similar to Elf, who Thibs also likes.
martin wrote:Clean wrote:blkexec wrote:"trying to balance winning basketball with youth development is great, except when you’re both losing and not developing your young players."https://dailyknicks.com/2022/02/25/new-y...
This has been my issue since very early on, when it was clear this team wasn't as good as we thought. Whether it's a roster issue or rotation issue, it was clear to me. So why should we play the vets, hurt youth development and lose games at the same time. When in fact, we are in a position to develop youth, and win or lose, it's good for our young guys to play against NBA players and not just in practice. win or lose, it's a learning opportunity for the yoots. It's also a great way to see their value. Cam is due for an extension. Need to know if Cam is worth the long term investment. We need a PG and we have Deuce on the shelf. Need to know if Deuce is a solid starter, bench player or trade asset that will continue to play in the G league until a large trade occurs. Same with Sims. Where does he rank on this team? Is he a starter, bench player or trade asset? So many questions can be addressed prior to the end of the season. This will make our off season moves more accurate, vs shooting in the dark, like we did with Kemba and Fournier.
Just thinking hypothetically, if there was a way to see how Kemba and Fournier fit with Thibs system and with this roster, prior to giving them all this money, would the FO still sign them? Hell no. Gotta see if Cam, Deuce, Sims, etc....are short or long term solutions. For example, what if Deuce is the PG we were looking for, but since we haven't played him, we draft a PG and add a PG in free agency. Then realize Deuce is a keeper. We just created a log jam, similar to when we gave Randle all that money and still used a high pick on Obi. Vs using a high pick on a need (PG or Wing Defender or Center). Starting PF was not a need.
Heres our chance to do better Leon Rose and company. Lets go Thibs. Show me something. Prove me wrong that you are not just a defensive coach that lacks offensive creativity. That you play vets over yoots. Prove me wrong please Leon, that you will give Thibs the green light to play the yoots and not grade him on wins and losses. So that Thibs doesn't feel that pressure to win every game. Maybe he would've pulled RJ out the game sooner? Knowing we have other yoots like Cam who needs the run, especially when the game is out of hand. Development should now be first, wins should be second. Or Play the vets to increase their value, while increasing our draft ranking. Well, if we are losing with vets, their trade value will drop eitherway.
I agree with pretty much everything you said. The youth might sink or swim but it better to know what you have than to not know.Say it differently. The coaching staff and FO pretty much know what they have cause they see it in practice. YOU need to see it as a fan just to see it with your own eyes.
Well going by your logic we should have been seeing more McBride since Thibs said he been doing "Great" in practice.
Clean wrote:martin wrote:Clean wrote:blkexec wrote:"trying to balance winning basketball with youth development is great, except when you’re both losing and not developing your young players."https://dailyknicks.com/2022/02/25/new-y...
This has been my issue since very early on, when it was clear this team wasn't as good as we thought. Whether it's a roster issue or rotation issue, it was clear to me. So why should we play the vets, hurt youth development and lose games at the same time. When in fact, we are in a position to develop youth, and win or lose, it's good for our young guys to play against NBA players and not just in practice. win or lose, it's a learning opportunity for the yoots. It's also a great way to see their value. Cam is due for an extension. Need to know if Cam is worth the long term investment. We need a PG and we have Deuce on the shelf. Need to know if Deuce is a solid starter, bench player or trade asset that will continue to play in the G league until a large trade occurs. Same with Sims. Where does he rank on this team? Is he a starter, bench player or trade asset? So many questions can be addressed prior to the end of the season. This will make our off season moves more accurate, vs shooting in the dark, like we did with Kemba and Fournier.
Just thinking hypothetically, if there was a way to see how Kemba and Fournier fit with Thibs system and with this roster, prior to giving them all this money, would the FO still sign them? Hell no. Gotta see if Cam, Deuce, Sims, etc....are short or long term solutions. For example, what if Deuce is the PG we were looking for, but since we haven't played him, we draft a PG and add a PG in free agency. Then realize Deuce is a keeper. We just created a log jam, similar to when we gave Randle all that money and still used a high pick on Obi. Vs using a high pick on a need (PG or Wing Defender or Center). Starting PF was not a need.
Heres our chance to do better Leon Rose and company. Lets go Thibs. Show me something. Prove me wrong that you are not just a defensive coach that lacks offensive creativity. That you play vets over yoots. Prove me wrong please Leon, that you will give Thibs the green light to play the yoots and not grade him on wins and losses. So that Thibs doesn't feel that pressure to win every game. Maybe he would've pulled RJ out the game sooner? Knowing we have other yoots like Cam who needs the run, especially when the game is out of hand. Development should now be first, wins should be second. Or Play the vets to increase their value, while increasing our draft ranking. Well, if we are losing with vets, their trade value will drop eitherway.
I agree with pretty much everything you said. The youth might sink or swim but it better to know what you have than to not know.Say it differently. The coaching staff and FO pretty much know what they have cause they see it in practice. YOU need to see it as a fan just to see it with your own eyes.
Well going by your logic we should have been seeing more McBride since Thibs said he been doing "Great" in practice.
I guess we have to wait until burks test positive for Covid, before Deuce gets a chance to play (SMH). Then Deuce kills and coach will say, it's because of practice. (LMAO). Nope, it's because of Covid.
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McBride gets to the hoop keeps his head up and finds the open man. Almost like he is a PG.
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Clean wrote:
He's no Alec Burks
smackeddog wrote:Clean wrote:He's no Alec Burks
We're all Alec Burks. My boss replaced me at work with Burks and he just kept mumbling "Alec does a lot of good things."
blkexec wrote:To me I don’t think deuce individual stats is that important for this team. It does tell you that he’s more offensive ready than most think. But to me if and when he gets to play on the main stage, he’s a glue guy. Does the little things that may not show up on the stat sheet. But it usually leads to a team win. It’s like watching Charlie ward in a 1 on 1 workout video. Nothing will stand out but he was perfect for us during that time and with the roster we had. Deuce can make that same impact to me. If not as a starter, at least as a rotational pg off the bench or small ball sg next to IQ.
I agree, but do want just say I wish we had had a better PG during our Ewing years - might have gotten us over the hump.
And that is why the position is so important, especially in today's NBA- Rose showed it last year.
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He’ll get more chances but Thibs has to give him more rope. While all good, it does effect the other players. Thibs tells us you have to contribute if your shots are not falling. McBride is a gunner. The NBA guards are bigger and faster than the Gleague.
Kid is young, it don’t have to happen this year.
smackeddog wrote:Clean wrote:He's no Alec Burks
Who is? That’s like saying “this guy is like Jordan” that’s impossible no one can ever be that good
franco12 wrote:blkexec wrote:To me I don’t think deuce individual stats is that important for this team. It does tell you that he’s more offensive ready than most think. But to me if and when he gets to play on the main stage, he’s a glue guy. Does the little things that may not show up on the stat sheet. But it usually leads to a team win. It’s like watching Charlie ward in a 1 on 1 workout video. Nothing will stand out but he was perfect for us during that time and with the roster we had. Deuce can make that same impact to me. If not as a starter, at least as a rotational pg off the bench or small ball sg next to IQ.I agree, but do want just say I wish we had had a better PG during our Ewing years - might have gotten us over the hump.
And that is why the position is so important, especially in today's NBA- Rose showed it last year.
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I want to see the Duece get loose too, but we really gotta take these G-League stats with a grain of salt.
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