Knicks · Bullish on Deuce (page 26)
martin wrote:I’m still shocked Thibs sat DRose for Deuce but I love it.
Same here. I think he sticks with deuce as long as the Ws pile up. I was never worried about his offense. But Im glad he finally scored for his own confidence. His defensive intensity is contagious.
blkexec wrote:martin wrote:I’m still shocked Thibs sat DRose for Deuce but I love it.Same here. I think he sticks with deuce as long as the Ws pile up. I was never worried about his offense. But Im glad he finally scored for his own confidence. His defensive intensity is contagious.
I think the whole Knicks nation exhaled when that one 3 pointer went down 
He's the backup PG for now. I watched every second last night vs. the Hawks. McBride really didnt play any PG. When Randle was in the game he brought up court and started the offense every time. Deuce brought it up a few times once Randle came out and he was paired with IQ, but even then he only started the offense a few times. He's really just a "guard" and that's fine.
I would have LOVED to see a clear out so Deuce could go right at Trae a few of the times he was guarding McBride but baby steps here. He also played with Brunson a bit and looked great guarding bigger guys. Kid's a tank
fishmike wrote:I was silly high on McBride when we drafted him. Mostly from watching the games he played vs. Cade. I could not believe this guy was not a FRP.He's the backup PG for now. I watched every second last night vs. the Hawks. McBride really didnt play any PG. When Randle was in the game he brought up court and started the offense every time. Deuce brought it up a few times once Randle came out and he was paired with IQ, but even then he only started the offense a few times. He's really just a "guard" and that's fine.
I would have LOVED to see a clear out so Deuce could go right at Trae a few of the times he was guarding McBride but baby steps here. He also played with Brunson a bit and looked great guarding bigger guys. Kid's a tank
As IQ was put next to Rose the first couple of years, IQ now good enough as a PG to allow McBride to play along side him and team still functional.
martin wrote:100%... and we move on from Rose/Fournier the whole roster is Randle/Brunson and guys 24 or younger. Maybe the Ukraine guy (who actually looks good) is older you get my gistfishmike wrote:I was silly high on McBride when we drafted him. Mostly from watching the games he played vs. Cade. I could not believe this guy was not a FRP.He's the backup PG for now. I watched every second last night vs. the Hawks. McBride really didnt play any PG. When Randle was in the game he brought up court and started the offense every time. Deuce brought it up a few times once Randle came out and he was paired with IQ, but even then he only started the offense a few times. He's really just a "guard" and that's fine.
I would have LOVED to see a clear out so Deuce could go right at Trae a few of the times he was guarding McBride but baby steps here. He also played with Brunson a bit and looked great guarding bigger guys. Kid's a tank
As IQ was put next to Rose the first couple of years, IQ now good enough as a PG to allow McBride to play along side him and team still functional.
Every day the youth movement getting stronger and stronger and the blue collar vibe is a thin of beauty
Smart took years to get to where he earned his role.
Nalod wrote:We all want Deuce to be great. He has to take it, earn it, not "Given".
Smart took years to get to where he earned his role.
I don’t think we all want deuce to be great. The same way you think I feel about thibs is how some feel about deuce. Waiting for them to fail. That’s not me.
I want thibs to succeed. I’m also going to call him out along with the FO. That has nothing to do with who I want to succeed. What knick fan doesn’t want to see success?
Thibs was on life support. And the yoots bailed him out. It was rumored that Thibs would not have lasted if he didn’t select the defenders he wants and the rotation he likes, with emphasis on defense.
It just feels like thibs had to make political roster moves. And when his back was against the wall, he started doing things Thibs way.
All I want is for the FO and Thibs to be on the same page. And for thibs to be allowed to play who he wants and not who the FO wants. Not saying that’s true but it feels like that.
But in general, I don’t care who’s ready and who’s not. Unless we have a championship team, that’s when being ready matters. We are a mid to below mid team and franchise. Like teach a dog to swim. Throw him in the water and let him learn. We don’t have time to watch the vets lose. That was my thing with Burks. IQ (or deuce) can lose games just as good as Burks was doing.
Burks had to learn the same things IQ had to learn. Now Burks not here and imagine how far IQ or Deuce would be right now. And it’s not about knowing more than thibs. There’s an old school approach and a new school approach. But all of this is water under the bridge.
Im ready to see what this team looks like now that Thibs is playing the yoots. Vets like rose and EF are on the bench. Let’s go
blkexec wrote:Nalod wrote:We all want Deuce to be great. He has to take it, earn it, not "Given".
Smart took years to get to where he earned his role.I don’t think we all want deuce to be great. The same way you think I feel about thibs is how some feel about deuce. Waiting for them to fail. That’s not me.
I want thibs to succeed. I’m also going to call him out along with the FO. That has nothing to do with who I want to succeed. What knick fan doesn’t want to see success?
Thibs was on life support. And the yoots bailed him out. It was rumored that Thibs would not have lasted if he didn’t select the defenders he wants and the rotation he likes, with emphasis on defense.
It just feels like thibs had to make political roster moves. And when his back was against the wall, he started doing things Thibs way.
All I want is for the FO and Thibs to be on the same page. And for thibs to be allowed to play who he wants and not who the FO wants. Not saying that’s true but it feels like that.
But in general, I don’t care who’s ready and who’s not. Unless we have a championship team, that’s when being ready matters. We are a mid to below mid team and franchise. Like teach a dog to swim. Throw him in the water and let him learn. We don’t have time to watch the vets lose. That was my thing with Burks. IQ (or deuce) can lose games just as good as Burks was doing.
Burks had to learn the same things IQ had to learn. Now Burks not here and imagine how far IQ or Deuce would be right now. And it’s not about knowing more than thibs. There’s an old school approach and a new school approach. But all of this is water under the bridge.
Im ready to see what this team looks like now that Thibs is playing the yoots. Vets like rose and EF are on the bench. Let’s go
Your fabrications are nice narratives. We all want wins.
This isn't breaking news to anyone in the NBA, but it remains one of the roadblocks in developing rookies. The NBA world believes experience is crucial in developing young players, but in order to get meaningful experience, they have to be able to handle themselves on the court, and the physicality of the NBA is a true hurdle.
https://www.businessinsider.com/nba-rook...
Want to know why I had faith in Deuce adaptability to the NBA, is because of his football background, toughness and defensive presence. The #1 adjustment players (especially guard) have to overcome is the physicality of the NBA. Deuce is a football player, so I know physically he was ready. Experience is also crucial. We needed point guard defense and Deuce was the best (still is the best) PG defender in the NBA. So yes Martin, I watch the game. I also know the certain players already have the physical tools to adjust from college to the pros. And his defense is what we needed and it's something that would keep him on the floor. I also liked IQ's defense out of college. Worried about his slight build, but game time is the best experience.
Now I'm worried about Thibs burning his players out. Something I've always complained about and got a lot of push back (as always). Still, I hope these guys don't get burnt out. 9 to 8 to now 7 man rotation? Lets see what we look like next game, and if JB is out for a long period. If so we running out of bodies fast.
blkexec wrote:This isn't breaking news to anyone in the NBA, but it remains one of the roadblocks in developing rookies. The NBA world believes experience is crucial in developing young players, but in order to get meaningful experience, they have to be able to handle themselves on the court, and the physicality of the NBA is a true hurdle.https://www.businessinsider.com/nba-rook...
Want to know why I had faith in Deuce adaptability to the NBA, is because of his football background, toughness and defensive presence. The #1 adjustment players (especially guard) have to overcome is the physicality of the NBA. Deuce is a football player, so I know physically he was ready. Experience is also crucial. We needed point guard defense and Deuce was the best (still is the best) PG defender in the NBA. So yes Martin, I watch the game. I also know the certain players already have the physical tools to adjust from college to the pros. And his defense is what we needed and it's something that would keep him on the floor. I also liked IQ's defense out of college. Worried about his slight build, but game time is the best experience.
Now I'm worried about Thibs burning his players out. Something I've always complained about and got a lot of push back (as always). Still, I hope these guys don't get burnt out. 9 to 8 to now 7 man rotation? Lets see what we look like next game, and if JB is out for a long period. If so we running out of bodies fast.
With a 4 win streak running, probably time to take a step back and focus on what’s going right. McBride is adding value from the bench by taking opposing players out of the game. Might have taken a while to get here, but “we here” now.
McBride always had “grit”. Now we need to get him rolling on offense in addition to his stifling defense.
blkexec wrote:This isn't breaking news to anyone in the NBA, but it remains one of the roadblocks in developing rookies. The NBA world believes experience is crucial in developing young players, but in order to get meaningful experience, they have to be able to handle themselves on the court, and the physicality of the NBA is a true hurdle.https://www.businessinsider.com/nba-rook...
Want to know why I had faith in Deuce adaptability to the NBA, is because of his football background, toughness and defensive presence. The #1 adjustment players (especially guard) have to overcome is the physicality of the NBA. Deuce is a football player, so I know physically he was ready. Experience is also crucial. We needed point guard defense and Deuce was the best (still is the best) PG defender in the NBA. So yes Martin, I watch the game. I also know the certain players already have the physical tools to adjust from college to the pros. And his defense is what we needed and it's something that would keep him on the floor. I also liked IQ's defense out of college. Worried about his slight build, but game time is the best experience.
Now I'm worried about Thibs burning his players out. Something I've always complained about and got a lot of push back (as always). Still, I hope these guys don't get burnt out. 9 to 8 to now 7 man rotation? Lets see what we look like next game, and if JB is out for a long period. If so we running out of bodies fast.
Good article! Always good to read up on things we already know but also why some players adjust faster.
Frank Vs. Deuce. Frank defense was on length, quickness and fundamentals but his offense lacked and in part from confidence, but his smallish build.
Deuce is a tank. Physically he is there, but the offense is a "process". If Knicks did not have faith in his ability he would be in Gleague and not ready in waiting has he has been since he got here.
Now, how does this apply to RJ? This kid has been starting and developing. In the Thibian era players that have setbacks usually are about to progress even sooner. Yes, some players are not as "accountable" but that is based on ceiling and what else they do. not all are equal. RJ was physically ready from day one to handle the minutes but im not sure he still instinctively understands how strong he is or can be.
He and randle had to adjust to JB. That matters. JB had to adjust to them as well.
Thibs has to figure a lot of shit out. He did and tightened the rotation. He did so without Rose and EF. This dispels all notions of "he don't play yoot". He inserted Deuce and Grimes. They had to earn their way in, not be given it.
Reality is RJ is seen as still having a high ceiling. He is still just 22. So is Deuce, but he did not have the pedigree that RJ and he only came on his sophmore season at WV. RJ was a one and done blue chipper.
That knicks did not go all in on DM matters. Speaks to what they think of RJ as does the Deuce given his promotion.
I suppose the big debate is "should have happened sooner". Well, gold stars to those that said that. Some wanted stars for Obi and to dump randle for nothing. Well, that was a bit premature. Randle is playing like a top 30 player and OBI after a hot start faded and is now broken.
Gold stars to those who preached patience with RJ and Randle?? LOL. Who cares, the wins are nice and while they come with some question marks given injuries to others, we will just have to keep plugging away.
This is mediocrity with young players, lots of picks, and a lot of possibilities. Its better than sucking with no picks and bad contracts.
Nalod wrote:blkexec wrote:This isn't breaking news to anyone in the NBA, but it remains one of the roadblocks in developing rookies. The NBA world believes experience is crucial in developing young players, but in order to get meaningful experience, they have to be able to handle themselves on the court, and the physicality of the NBA is a true hurdle.https://www.businessinsider.com/nba-rook...
Want to know why I had faith in Deuce adaptability to the NBA, is because of his football background, toughness and defensive presence. The #1 adjustment players (especially guard) have to overcome is the physicality of the NBA. Deuce is a football player, so I know physically he was ready. Experience is also crucial. We needed point guard defense and Deuce was the best (still is the best) PG defender in the NBA. So yes Martin, I watch the game. I also know the certain players already have the physical tools to adjust from college to the pros. And his defense is what we needed and it's something that would keep him on the floor. I also liked IQ's defense out of college. Worried about his slight build, but game time is the best experience.
Now I'm worried about Thibs burning his players out. Something I've always complained about and got a lot of push back (as always). Still, I hope these guys don't get burnt out. 9 to 8 to now 7 man rotation? Lets see what we look like next game, and if JB is out for a long period. If so we running out of bodies fast.
Good article! Always good to read up on things we already know but also why some players adjust faster.
Frank Vs. Deuce. Frank defense was on length, quickness and fundamentals but his offense lacked and in part from confidence, but his smallish build.
Deuce is a tank. Physically he is there, but the offense is a "process". If Knicks did not have faith in his ability he would be in Gleague and not ready in waiting has he has been since he got here.Now, how does this apply to RJ? This kid has been starting and developing. In the Thibian era players that have setbacks usually are about to progress even sooner. Yes, some players are not as "accountable" but that is based on ceiling and what else they do. not all are equal. RJ was physically ready from day one to handle the minutes but im not sure he still instinctively understands how strong he is or can be.
He and randle had to adjust to JB. That matters. JB had to adjust to them as well.
Thibs has to figure a lot of shit out. He did and tightened the rotation. He did so without Rose and EF. This dispels all notions of "he don't play yoot". He inserted Deuce and Grimes. They had to earn their way in, not be given it.Reality is RJ is seen as still having a high ceiling. He is still just 22. So is Deuce, but he did not have the pedigree that RJ and he only came on his sophmore season at WV. RJ was a one and done blue chipper.
That knicks did not go all in on DM matters. Speaks to what they think of RJ as does the Deuce given his promotion.
I suppose the big debate is "should have happened sooner". Well, gold stars to those that said that. Some wanted stars for Obi and to dump randle for nothing. Well, that was a bit premature. Randle is playing like a top 30 player and OBI after a hot start faded and is now broken.
Gold stars to those who preached patience with RJ and Randle?? LOL. Who cares, the wins are nice and while they come with some question marks given injuries to others, we will just have to keep plugging away.
This is mediocrity with young players, lots of picks, and a lot of possibilities. Its better than sucking with no picks and bad contracts.
I disagree with the earning part. These guys played based on injuries to the player in front of them. Thats how Grimes received PT. Deuce to me was a Thibs decision or maybe he earned it (I don't know I'm not in practice. All I can go by is what I see on TV). The fact that I have to spell that out, is the problem I'm having with certain posters in the forum. Everybody needs to relax. Sit back, drink some tea and enjoy the ride. It's like people get upset if I say Thibs is trash, trade Randle. Relax!
With Thibs, I'm not seeing this earn it, then you will play. or PT is not given, you earn it. Thats a great slogan and polical blah.....But not accurate from what I've seen. The yoots play, based on injuries. Now I'm starting to see the yoots play based on Thibs. Just my thought after watching the beginning of the season unfold.
I disagree with the second bold. Those who wanted Randle gone and Obi to replace him, probably still feel the same way and in fact, would like to trade Randle now, since his stock is high. So thats not premature to me. Whats premature are the fans that said Randle is trash and needs to go because he's not good. I haven't heard anybody in the forum say that. Everybody knows Randle is our best player, and everybody knows he was going to start killing eventually. We also know he's a loose cannon ready to erupt. Personally, what I don't like is what Thibs said and how everybody is babysiting this grown man. Thibs said he doesn't blame Randle, he blames his teammates? This is what I've been talking about. How is Thibs holding Randle accountable by saying his out burse which caused him to be ejected, is not his fault, it's his teammates???? Come on Thibs.
Regarding this forum, it's ok to make a mistake people. Let it go. It's a chat not a face to face convo. I know I've said stuff in person. Someone corrected it and I'm like, you right. Just had to get that off my chest. I'm starting to see more forum policing and less freedom of speaking. Martin is the police, let him police. Everybody else, lets talk, debate, discuss, cheer or cry.
Also, the "should have happened sooner" debate isn't a debate, but rather a comment. Nobody knows if IQ started sooner or Deuce started sooner, they will be better or worst. My point is we would've known more in the off season, what we have. So when it was time to make a DM trade, the FO not running around with their heads cut off. They know what they have and can make logical decisions. Minus some of the trolls, We all want the same thing at the end.
4 games ago it was to fans.
Randle was destroying the Kings last night.
Thibs hold him accountable? Seems like he does by his play. You want to punish a player with a 100mill contract. not happening.
How should he be accountable? Reduce turnovers? Check. Up shooting %? Check. Rebound? check? Pass out? check?
He could act better, but he is improved this year. You worried he gonna have another kid and get grumpy? Thats valid.
Nalod wrote:Randle is not a "Stock". He is a player who is back to his ceiling. If the goal is to improve, who and what comes back in a trade? You want the tank? The tank is not in play after 4 game win streak.
4 games ago it was to fans.
Randle was destroying the Kings last night.
Thibs hold him accountable? Seems like he does by his play. You want to punish a player with a 100mill contract. not happening.
How should he be accountable? Reduce turnovers? Check. Up shooting %? Check. Rebound? check? Pass out? check?
He could act better, but he is improved this year. You worried he gonna have another kid and get grumpy? Thats valid.
We tanked under fisher and ended the season on a winning streak. Thibs threw in the towel last season and allowed IQ and Obi to play starter minutes since we was out of the running to make the playoffs. That’s a tank move and we went on a winning streak. I wouldn’t say tank and Knicks in the same sentence. We don’t know how to tank.
They didn’t shoot the ball particularly well — a combined 8-25 from the three — but they stayed cool under pressure and kept the Kings at bay. Cut and paste from a recent article.
There’s a difference with a team that plays defense and shoots 8-25, and the result was a blow out win.
Prior to adding deuce to the rotation. If we shot 8-25 from 3 we lose. Yesterday we won in a blowout at that.
Defense wins championships
Defense also allows the team to shoot bad and win.
Defense covers up any offensive weaknesses when you’re on a team full of offensive players.
Vs
Grimes IQ and Deuce
We made it to 4th seed with the first three. Can we at least make the playoffs with the new defensive squad.
Making the playoffs with the yoots getting meaningful minutes is what I enjoy. I don’t remember the last time we had this much young potential and draft picks. Gotta credit the FO for that. I’ve been on them for alignment with coach and other stuff but truth is they have done a way better job than Knick GMs of the past.
blkexec wrote:Nalod wrote:Randle is not a "Stock". He is a player who is back to his ceiling. If the goal is to improve, who and what comes back in a trade? You want the tank? The tank is not in play after 4 game win streak.
4 games ago it was to fans.
Randle was destroying the Kings last night.
Thibs hold him accountable? Seems like he does by his play. You want to punish a player with a 100mill contract. not happening.
How should he be accountable? Reduce turnovers? Check. Up shooting %? Check. Rebound? check? Pass out? check?
He could act better, but he is improved this year. You worried he gonna have another kid and get grumpy? Thats valid.We tanked under fisher and ended the season on a winning streak. Thibs threw in the towel last season and allowed IQ and Obi to play starter minutes since we was out of the running to make the playoffs. That’s a tank move and we went on a winning streak. I wouldn’t say tank and Knicks in the same sentence. We don’t know how to tank.
Randle was out a bunch of games and OBI did well statistically.
Tanking does not help yoot learn. Tanking if injuries grip the team and they on the shelf can work. AKA: when Spurs did it and got Timmy.
I told y’all he can shoot, he can score. I believe his dominance in the g league gave him added confidence. Just a little thibs credit for the thibs fans. But it was only a matter of time the deuce was loose. He’s not shy so I wasn’t surprised. Deuce for 333333
blkexec wrote:Where’s my true deuce fans at?I told y’all he can shoot, he can score. I believe his dominance in the g league gave him added confidence. Just a little thibs credit for the thibs fans. But it was only a matter of time the deuce was loose. He’s not shy so I wasn’t surprised. Deuce for 333333
He lit up Gleague last year and it did not translate right away.
Little credit for Thibs? How about credit to the assistants too?
What your missing in your gold star quests is that nobody cares about your self prognostications.
Real accolades goes to a process that takes a player, young or old that has not succeeded before and puts him in a position to execute/succeed. Deuce, like Sims is coached well by the staff as they are able to execute the tasks THEN be fed more to do.
Things like RJ scaling back his shot selection and rebuilding his confidence without benching. Mostly on a 5 game road trip.
Putting Randle into position where he succeeds more than fails.
Grimes getting installed to starting lineup and over time getting more catch and shoot opportunities.
JB, after a hot start and teams adjusting, has added more by less. Randle back to point forward duties with Brunson off the ball. Keeps his wear down.
My take is both Brunson and RJ getting to the rim creates the offense rebound by mitch and Hart when the weak side comes to help. THis factors. Not like they are defying their coach?
If the yoot are succeeding now than before its proof they were not being held back, they were not ready. Fanboys won’t see that. They like conspiracy. Can’t give coaches credit if it means not laying claim that “I called it”.
Martin, we need a gold star emoji! Im thinking we need to have a blkexec honorarium for his work on unlocking the “Deceuce conundrum” as Thibs, who no doubt scours these pages for coaching concepts took the work and now shines.
Blkexec walks amung us with no ceremony in obscurity.