Knicks · Bullish on Deuce (page 9)

Nalod wrote:RJ been playing great and the TO are symptomatic of a player playing more freely. Give it time. Its part of the process. He is playmaking more, shooting more, and TO more.
Randle Passing has evolved greatly the last few years. I'd say his inconsistancy by my view is he is doing different things with the ball. Some of it is very good and awful but to me its a growth.
Deuce is likely doing more playmaking. He came out shooting and if you can't do that in the nBA you better be contributing in different ways.

I agree with this. I think the freedom RJ is working with is a positive. He seems to have the maturity to handle the ball. I am hoping he uses that strength to get the basket AND draw contact a bit more, but will settle for him driving to the basket. He seems to know when to pass the ball and its not because he dribbled the ball for 14 seconds and didn't feel comfortable forcing an 18 ft turnaround jumpshot. Its more cause he see the coverage collapsing on him and finds the open man. He will get even better with that despite the turnovers now.

NYKMentality wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

blkexec wrote:So let;s move this back to my point. Duece and sims. We need a PG correct? I agree sitting Kemba will hurt his value maybe but everybody knows what Kemba brings.

For sims to play, you decrease our centers value and I agree with that. So make a simple trade, shouldnt be hard to make room for sims.

Who would you trade a Kemba for? What makes you think Deuce is the answer? You would think Thibs would have given him some minutes with Rose and Kemba out if he did.

I agree. There is a big time difference of dominating a weak D-League in comparison to being ready for the NBA

Deuce hasn't been given many opportunities but he's had 4 games of at least 20+ minutes (20 minutes, 24 minutes, 24 minutes and 35 minutes).

And what did he do during those 4 games of opportunists to show his NBA worth as only a Rookie? Not much.

4 games.
26.2 Minutes per game.
7.5 Points per game.
3.5 Assists per game.
1.5 steals per game.
0.5 turnover per game.
0.3 Free Throw attempts per game.
FG% of .375%.
3PT% of .313%.

I really like his Defense and low turnover numbers. But that's about it. He struggles to score, has awful shooting numbers and he's not very good at driving to the rim either ala never gets to the FT line.

Imo he's not a natural/pure PG but more of a combo guard (we've already got one of those in I.Q) and he's most certainly no Kemba Walker.

He's just a Rookie. So I'm not being too hard on him. I'm just pointing out how A.) There's a big difference of D-League vs. NBA and B.) He just doesn't look ready @ PG and if asked to start and play a lot of minutes we'd probably lose a lot of games because of it.

I'm a fan of Deuce's upside even if he is not ready for the starting role today. Keeping it in perspective, I have him at the Toney Douglas ranking on the way in the door except I like his outside shooting and his wingspan much better. But the grit this kid has reminds me of Toney Douglas. Thats just a baseline. I see the comparisons to Marcus Smart and I think that is a legitimate comparison. These guys can use a few seasons of NBA level conditioning and experience before being NBA ready. Doesn't mean I would give up on him.

Rokas is doing well in Europe, but I am not ready to crown him king PG. He isn't picking up the NBA timing even in the best non-NBA league in the world. I think he has a great opportunity to be good, but I think they need to get him into an NBA practice or two before we give him the starting pg job. The FVV compare on footwork instead of athleticism resonates with me. But it still took FVV a bit of time to be good at the NBA level.

Rokas vs Deuce? Rokas has both size and wingspan on Deuce. He is getting better minutes in a competitive league. But, Rokas is not getting Knicks practices. For that reason, I have Deuce in front on the depth chart. I think they have Rokas in Europe for another year or two based on contract.

Philc1 wrote:McBride is struggling with shooting? So is the entire roster

Exactly……does he struggle with turnovers? Ok so does Randle and RJ. Sounds like Deuce will fit in perfect. I rather lose games with him getting nba minutes now than lose games with him on the bench. At least we have an idea if he’s a long term solution or not. His defense and energy alone would be an upgrade.

I love when I hear he’s not ready yet. Then our big 3 goes 1-6, 1-9 & 2-8 but deuce ain’t ready? Looks like our vets ain’t ready.

blkexec wrote:

Philc1 wrote:McBride is struggling with shooting? So is the entire roster

Exactly……does he struggle with turnovers? Ok so does Randle and RJ. Sounds like Deuce will fit in perfect. I rather lose games with him getting nba minutes now than lose games with him on the bench. At least we have an idea if he’s a long term solution or not. His defense and energy alone would be an upgrade.

I love when I hear he’s not ready yet. Then our big 3 goes 1-6, 1-9 & 2-8 but deuce ain’t ready? Looks like our vets ain’t ready.

Clean wrote:

blkexec wrote:

Philc1 wrote:McBride is struggling with shooting? So is the entire roster

Exactly……does he struggle with turnovers? Ok so does Randle and RJ. Sounds like Deuce will fit in perfect. I rather lose games with him getting nba minutes now than lose games with him on the bench. At least we have an idea if he’s a long term solution or not. His defense and energy alone would be an upgrade.

I love when I hear he’s not ready yet. Then our big 3 goes 1-6, 1-9 & 2-8 but deuce ain’t ready? Looks like our vets ain’t ready.

Can't argue with your logic. Good point how only young players seem to be held accountable for poor shooting or mistakes.

Wait….did somebody just agree with me. Didn’t call me lazy. Didn’t say u don’t make any since. Didn’t rip my post apart line by line with bolds and quotes like my HS English teacher used to do just so I have to spend an extra hour explaining and breaking down my past post and typos and errors. Thank you brother. U just made my day believe it or not. Just want to talk about the subject at hand.

But all seriousness. That’s the weakness in thibs and most old school coaches. But I get it. Thibs has his core of vets he protects for good reason.

Randle, RJ, Rose and Taj all helped him become COY last year. And this group and Thibs was successful. So he has a longer leash on them. Even though i disagree and believe everybody should be held to the same standards I also understand his thinking. I still disagree though. But thibs always been a guy to ride his vets, which is why I thought this hiring was a conflict from the beginning. But who am I to challenge the old great one. Keep the core and change the supporters around the core. No more do overs please. It’s driving me 😜

blkexec wrote:

Philc1 wrote:McBride is struggling with shooting? So is the entire roster

Exactly……does he struggle with turnovers? Ok so does Randle and RJ. Sounds like Deuce will fit in perfect. I rather lose games with him getting nba minutes now than lose games with him on the bench. At least we have an idea if he’s a long term solution or not. His defense and energy alone would be an upgrade.

I love when I hear he’s not ready yet. Then our big 3 goes 1-6, 1-9 & 2-8 but deuce ain’t ready? Looks like our vets ain’t ready.

What is "NBA ready?" Watching Kemba who can't even run full speed because of his knee and obviously needs to rest another 1-2 weeks? Burks turn into a bricklayer because Thibs converted him into a full-time pg? IQ turning into a bricklayer for similar reasons?

Just call the kid up already. He doesn't even have to start but I'm becoming nauseous watching Burks and IQ do OJT at the PG position

Philc1 wrote:

blkexec wrote:

Philc1 wrote:McBride is struggling with shooting? So is the entire roster

Exactly……does he struggle with turnovers? Ok so does Randle and RJ. Sounds like Deuce will fit in perfect. I rather lose games with him getting nba minutes now than lose games with him on the bench. At least we have an idea if he’s a long term solution or not. His defense and energy alone would be an upgrade.

I love when I hear he’s not ready yet. Then our big 3 goes 1-6, 1-9 & 2-8 but deuce ain’t ready? Looks like our vets ain’t ready.

What is "NBA ready?" Watching Kemba who can't even run full speed because of his knee and obviously needs to rest another 1-2 weeks? Burks turn into a bricklayer because Thibs converted him into a full-time pg? IQ turning into a bricklayer for similar reasons?

Just call the kid up already. He doesn't even have to start but I'm becoming nauseous watching Burks and IQ do OJT at the PG position

Preaching to the choir. I agree. Anybody that says deuce or rokas or anybody not on the Knicks is not nba ready, obviously haven’t watched a single Knicks game this season. Every game this season, you can point to someone or multiple players on the starting unit alone that looks like they are not nba ready. Yet thibs stays consistent and continues to dish out consistent minutes to his vets regardless of play.

I love that about him. Players love that about him. Makes it easy when coming into work everyday and expecting the same treatment. Got it. Well, time to have a mid year review convo with all the players thibs. Now is when you say, this player or that player is out of the rotation or going to the second unit. Not 20 games in and not a removal from the rotation like they are some kind of cancer, unless in kembas case that was his preference. But he said he didn’t care.

Let’s hope this lost finally forces the FO or Thibs into a minor shake up. Salvage the team and salvage the decisions the FO made. Break up Kemba and EF. Keep Burks on the second unit. And let the team know we shaking things up every 10 games or so until we can find some consistency. But this starting unit needs some injection of energy and it ain’t coming from the vets.

blkexec wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

blkexec wrote:

Philc1 wrote:McBride is struggling with shooting? So is the entire roster

Exactly……does he struggle with turnovers? Ok so does Randle and RJ. Sounds like Deuce will fit in perfect. I rather lose games with him getting nba minutes now than lose games with him on the bench. At least we have an idea if he’s a long term solution or not. His defense and energy alone would be an upgrade.

I love when I hear he’s not ready yet. Then our big 3 goes 1-6, 1-9 & 2-8 but deuce ain’t ready? Looks like our vets ain’t ready.

What is "NBA ready?" Watching Kemba who can't even run full speed because of his knee and obviously needs to rest another 1-2 weeks? Burks turn into a bricklayer because Thibs converted him into a full-time pg? IQ turning into a bricklayer for similar reasons?

Just call the kid up already. He doesn't even have to start but I'm becoming nauseous watching Burks and IQ do OJT at the PG position

Preaching to the choir. I agree. Anybody that says deuce or rokas or anybody not on the Knicks is not nba ready, obviously haven’t watched a single Knicks game this season. Every game this season, you can point to someone or multiple players on the starting unit alone that looks like they are not nba ready. Yet thibs stays consistent and continues to dish out consistent minutes to his vets regardless of play.

I love that about him. Players love that about him. Makes it easy when coming into work everyday and expecting the same treatment. Got it. Well, time to have a mid year review convo with all the players thibs. Now is when you say, this player or that player is out of the rotation or going to the second unit. Not 20 games in and not a removal from the rotation like they are some kind of cancer, unless in kembas case that was his preference. But he said he didn’t care.

Let’s hope this lost finally forces the FO or Thibs into a minor shake up. Salvage the team and salvage the decisions the FO made. Break up Kemba and EF. Keep Burks on the second unit. And let the team know we shaking things up every 10 games or so until we can find some consistency. But this starting unit needs some injection of energy and it ain’t coming from the vets.

It’s not like Grimes hasn’t played well in regular season nba games.

And we don’t need Grimes to be Ja Morant. He could be a serviceable pg who frees up Burks and IQ to do their thing off ball

Philc1 wrote:

blkexec wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

blkexec wrote:

Philc1 wrote:McBride is struggling with shooting? So is the entire roster

Exactly……does he struggle with turnovers? Ok so does Randle and RJ. Sounds like Deuce will fit in perfect. I rather lose games with him getting nba minutes now than lose games with him on the bench. At least we have an idea if he’s a long term solution or not. His defense and energy alone would be an upgrade.

I love when I hear he’s not ready yet. Then our big 3 goes 1-6, 1-9 & 2-8 but deuce ain’t ready? Looks like our vets ain’t ready.

What is "NBA ready?" Watching Kemba who can't even run full speed because of his knee and obviously needs to rest another 1-2 weeks? Burks turn into a bricklayer because Thibs converted him into a full-time pg? IQ turning into a bricklayer for similar reasons?

Just call the kid up already. He doesn't even have to start but I'm becoming nauseous watching Burks and IQ do OJT at the PG position

Preaching to the choir. I agree. Anybody that says deuce or rokas or anybody not on the Knicks is not nba ready, obviously haven’t watched a single Knicks game this season. Every game this season, you can point to someone or multiple players on the starting unit alone that looks like they are not nba ready. Yet thibs stays consistent and continues to dish out consistent minutes to his vets regardless of play.

I love that about him. Players love that about him. Makes it easy when coming into work everyday and expecting the same treatment. Got it. Well, time to have a mid year review convo with all the players thibs. Now is when you say, this player or that player is out of the rotation or going to the second unit. Not 20 games in and not a removal from the rotation like they are some kind of cancer, unless in kembas case that was his preference. But he said he didn’t care.

Let’s hope this lost finally forces the FO or Thibs into a minor shake up. Salvage the team and salvage the decisions the FO made. Break up Kemba and EF. Keep Burks on the second unit. And let the team know we shaking things up every 10 games or so until we can find some consistency. But this starting unit needs some injection of energy and it ain’t coming from the vets.

It’s not like Grimes hasn’t played well in regular season nba games.

And we don’t need Grimes to be Ja Morant. He could be a serviceable pg who frees up Burks and IQ to do their thing off ball

Still stuck on Grimes as a potential PG I see. So out of whack with reality

Javascript is not enabled or there was problem with the URL: https://twitter.com/wcknicks/status/1486804871319855104

Click here to view the Tweet

martin wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

blkexec wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

blkexec wrote:

Philc1 wrote:McBride is struggling with shooting? So is the entire roster

Exactly……does he struggle with turnovers? Ok so does Randle and RJ. Sounds like Deuce will fit in perfect. I rather lose games with him getting nba minutes now than lose games with him on the bench. At least we have an idea if he’s a long term solution or not. His defense and energy alone would be an upgrade.

I love when I hear he’s not ready yet. Then our big 3 goes 1-6, 1-9 & 2-8 but deuce ain’t ready? Looks like our vets ain’t ready.

What is "NBA ready?" Watching Kemba who can't even run full speed because of his knee and obviously needs to rest another 1-2 weeks? Burks turn into a bricklayer because Thibs converted him into a full-time pg? IQ turning into a bricklayer for similar reasons?

Just call the kid up already. He doesn't even have to start but I'm becoming nauseous watching Burks and IQ do OJT at the PG position

Preaching to the choir. I agree. Anybody that says deuce or rokas or anybody not on the Knicks is not nba ready, obviously haven’t watched a single Knicks game this season. Every game this season, you can point to someone or multiple players on the starting unit alone that looks like they are not nba ready. Yet thibs stays consistent and continues to dish out consistent minutes to his vets regardless of play.

I love that about him. Players love that about him. Makes it easy when coming into work everyday and expecting the same treatment. Got it. Well, time to have a mid year review convo with all the players thibs. Now is when you say, this player or that player is out of the rotation or going to the second unit. Not 20 games in and not a removal from the rotation like they are some kind of cancer, unless in kembas case that was his preference. But he said he didn’t care.

Let’s hope this lost finally forces the FO or Thibs into a minor shake up. Salvage the team and salvage the decisions the FO made. Break up Kemba and EF. Keep Burks on the second unit. And let the team know we shaking things up every 10 games or so until we can find some consistency. But this starting unit needs some injection of energy and it ain’t coming from the vets.

It’s not like Grimes hasn’t played well in regular season nba games.

And we don’t need Grimes to be Ja Morant. He could be a serviceable pg who frees up Burks and IQ to do their thing off ball

Still stuck on Grimes as a potential PG I see. So out of whack with reality

You seem to like Burks playing PG. McBride is the best defensive pg the Knicks have. Thibs trying to plug square pieces in to circle.

Vmart wrote:

martin wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

blkexec wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

blkexec wrote:

Philc1 wrote:McBride is struggling with shooting? So is the entire roster

Exactly……does he struggle with turnovers? Ok so does Randle and RJ. Sounds like Deuce will fit in perfect. I rather lose games with him getting nba minutes now than lose games with him on the bench. At least we have an idea if he’s a long term solution or not. His defense and energy alone would be an upgrade.

I love when I hear he’s not ready yet. Then our big 3 goes 1-6, 1-9 & 2-8 but deuce ain’t ready? Looks like our vets ain’t ready.

What is "NBA ready?" Watching Kemba who can't even run full speed because of his knee and obviously needs to rest another 1-2 weeks? Burks turn into a bricklayer because Thibs converted him into a full-time pg? IQ turning into a bricklayer for similar reasons?

Just call the kid up already. He doesn't even have to start but I'm becoming nauseous watching Burks and IQ do OJT at the PG position

Preaching to the choir. I agree. Anybody that says deuce or rokas or anybody not on the Knicks is not nba ready, obviously haven’t watched a single Knicks game this season. Every game this season, you can point to someone or multiple players on the starting unit alone that looks like they are not nba ready. Yet thibs stays consistent and continues to dish out consistent minutes to his vets regardless of play.

I love that about him. Players love that about him. Makes it easy when coming into work everyday and expecting the same treatment. Got it. Well, time to have a mid year review convo with all the players thibs. Now is when you say, this player or that player is out of the rotation or going to the second unit. Not 20 games in and not a removal from the rotation like they are some kind of cancer, unless in kembas case that was his preference. But he said he didn’t care.

Let’s hope this lost finally forces the FO or Thibs into a minor shake up. Salvage the team and salvage the decisions the FO made. Break up Kemba and EF. Keep Burks on the second unit. And let the team know we shaking things up every 10 games or so until we can find some consistency. But this starting unit needs some injection of energy and it ain’t coming from the vets.

It’s not like Grimes hasn’t played well in regular season nba games.

And we don’t need Grimes to be Ja Morant. He could be a serviceable pg who frees up Burks and IQ to do their thing off ball

Still stuck on Grimes as a potential PG I see. So out of whack with reality

You seem to like Burks playing PG. McBride is the best defensive pg the Knicks have. Thibs trying to plug square pieces in to circle.

You would be wrong on that

blkexec wrote:Well….if reports are true, EF, Burks and Kemba on the trading block. If that happens the DEUCE will be LOOSE

Their willingness to deal their veterans away could be a sign that the Knicks are mulling over punting this season to develop their young core the rest of the way.

blkexec wrote:

blkexec wrote:Well….if reports are true, EF, Burks and Kemba on the trading block. If that happens the DEUCE will be LOOSE

Their willingness to deal their veterans away could be a sign that the Knicks are mulling over punting this season to develop their young core the rest of the way.

In video form

Javascript is not enabled or there was problem with the URL: https://twitter.com/TommyBeer/status/1486869315739652103?s=20

Click here to view the Tweet

blkexec wrote:

blkexec wrote:Well….if reports are true, EF, Burks and Kemba on the trading block. If that happens the DEUCE will be LOOSE

Their willingness to deal their veterans away could be a sign that the Knicks are mulling over punting this season to develop their young core the rest of the way.

http://www.ultimateknicks.com/outerlink....

Can a contender possibly be interested in EVan or Kemba, maybe Evan can be moved if the FO attaches Deuce. I dont want that to happen.

Jimbo5 wrote:At this point even if these players are made available with the performance these players have shown its still a long shot for them to be traded, unless the FO attaches some of the 2nd rounders they have accumulated to grease the wheels. At this point Burks will be the most attractive of the three.

Can a contender possibly be interested in EVan or Kemba, maybe Evan can be moved if the FO attaches Deuce. I dont want that to happen.

Deuce doesn’t have any value yet, since he hasn’t played. Rokas maybe and definitely Grimes who everybody loves. But it doesn’t look that serious unless they was moving Randle for an all star player. Sounds like they just trying to make room for cam and the young guys which gives thibs the green light to play them major mins that cam Obi and IQ are ready for. We couldn’t move Noah but they found a way to remove him from the roster. They will find a way to make room for the youths if a trade doesn’t happen, while keeping part of the core from last year. Plus our picks have enough value…to sweeten any deal.

Burks Kemba and EF can help teams win now if placed in the right rotation. And I agree with EF when he said we / thibs needs to adjust when teams take away the things we trying to do. We have too much offense to not be able to score. That slight dig at thibs and sticking up for Kemba plus the losing was his ticket out. Even though he’s absolutely correct. EF needs a system to be impactful. Some players like cat on the wolves don’t. He can get his own bucket. Thibs needs players who don’t need much offensive creativity to score. As long as they play D. More on ball defensive 2 way players is what we need and why we drafted grimes and deuce.