blkexec wrote:Philc1 wrote:This devolved into another RJ-hate thread fast
knick fans need somebody to hate.
We are now trading first round picks to salary dump RJ for the 5th pick overall.
Philc1 wrote:blkexec wrote:Philc1 wrote:This devolved into another RJ-hate thread fast
knick fans need somebody to hate.
We are now trading first round picks to salary dump RJ for the 5th pick overall.
You saying the Pistons do this than take the 2nd thompson twin?
Does Cade stay at the 2 or move to the 3?
Or you just being funny?
martin wrote:LivingLegend wrote:Listening to an Athletic podcast this AM with a Piston reporter who was proposing trades centered around the Piston’s #5 pick.One trade he proposed was built around RJ + future pick for #5 + Bogey + a shooter.
Looking at trade machine looks like RJ/Fournier/future #1 for Bogey/Burkes/#5 would work…..thoughts?
Knicks could potentially then move that #5 pick for RJ type replacement.
If Cam Whitmore is there, I would do it.
I like Cam in this draft as well. If making moves with Detroit, I would see if they want to trade Wiseman. They have Duren, Stewart and Wiseman right now. Would like to get my hands on Wiseman and maybe let him fight with Robinson a bit to toughen one of them up. The Pistons traded Saddiq Bey and Knox for Wiseman, so, they didn't pay a steep price but he isn't a throw in.
But I don't think this has any merit.
Cunningham/Ivey/Whitmore/Bagley/Wiseman needs a tough developmental coach, but damn if that's not one of the more athletic and sizable lineups in the league. Maybe they are better with Barrett instead of Whitmore or Bogs. But are they?
EwingsGlass wrote:martin wrote:LivingLegend wrote:Listening to an Athletic podcast this AM with a Piston reporter who was proposing trades centered around the Piston’s #5 pick.One trade he proposed was built around RJ + future pick for #5 + Bogey + a shooter.
Looking at trade machine looks like RJ/Fournier/future #1 for Bogey/Burkes/#5 would work…..thoughts?
Knicks could potentially then move that #5 pick for RJ type replacement.
If Cam Whitmore is there, I would do it.
I like Cam in this draft as well. If making moves with Detroit, I would see if they want to trade Wiseman. They have Duren, Stewart and Wiseman right now. Would like to get my hands on Wiseman and maybe let him fight with Robinson a bit to toughen one of them up. The Pistons traded Saddiq Bey and Knox for Wiseman, so, they didn't pay a steep price but he isn't a throw in.
But I don't think this has any merit.
Cunningham/Ivey/Whitmore/Bagley/Wiseman needs a tough developmental coach, but damn if that's not one of the more athletic and sizable lineups in the league. Maybe they are better with Barrett instead of Whitmore or Bogs. But are they?
With Wisemen, he makes $12M next year and you need to extend him. I just don't think he is worth it. Knicks already have a better player in iHart too.
martin wrote:EwingsGlass wrote:martin wrote:LivingLegend wrote:Listening to an Athletic podcast this AM with a Piston reporter who was proposing trades centered around the Piston’s #5 pick.One trade he proposed was built around RJ + future pick for #5 + Bogey + a shooter.
Looking at trade machine looks like RJ/Fournier/future #1 for Bogey/Burkes/#5 would work…..thoughts?
Knicks could potentially then move that #5 pick for RJ type replacement.
If Cam Whitmore is there, I would do it.
I like Cam in this draft as well. If making moves with Detroit, I would see if they want to trade Wiseman. They have Duren, Stewart and Wiseman right now. Would like to get my hands on Wiseman and maybe let him fight with Robinson a bit to toughen one of them up. The Pistons traded Saddiq Bey and Knox for Wiseman, so, they didn't pay a steep price but he isn't a throw in.
But I don't think this has any merit.
Cunningham/Ivey/Whitmore/Bagley/Wiseman needs a tough developmental coach, but damn if that's not one of the more athletic and sizable lineups in the league. Maybe they are better with Barrett instead of Whitmore or Bogs. But are they?
With Wisemen, he makes $12M next year and you need to extend him. I just don't think he is worth it. Knicks already have a better player in iHart too.
Kid I like on Piston’s that I think Thibs would play is I. Stewart —- upped his 3’s by ~4 attempts per game and shot 33% - think he will continue to trend higher and maybe a good bench 4 at 22 years old.
How do you feel about KP? Towards the end of the season, KP apologized about how things went down. Its a new front office. If you can keep the Mid-three(jalen, RJ and Randle)and trafe for KP for Mitch, iQ, Fournier and a 1st. They just need to replicate the big production of IQ. kP can stretch the floor and somehow protect the rim. Rebounding will be a concern though.
I have no axe to grind with KP in terms of how he left NY - doesn’t seem to matter at this point, he was young, mgmt sucked and he’s subsequently stated he may have made a mistake in some of what he said post leaving. All reasonable to me.
From a playing standpoint he moved much better last year vs being a statue in Dallas. I thought the Wiz offense really catered to his skill set last year with a bunch of high pick/pops, some rolls but KP did a bunch of ball movement and he shot well from distance. He just moved better.
I think he’d play great off Brunson and even RJ —- Randle not so much.
I think he’s a center but he does require a long physical defensive presence next to him —— doesn’t work with Mitch imo.
Injuries are the big concern along with availability and maybe general lack of physicality.
It seems like if there is a major trade in the offseason to bring a superstar, its more likely that the knicks FO trades RJ rather than Randle. They value his toughness and durability very much. Im guessing the knick will have a major trade for an impact player and not a superstar.
I hope they can use their mid level exemption to sign DiVincenzo then trade for a stretch 5 like KP with a package of Mitch, IQ and Fournier plus a protected player 1st(give back washington's pick)
If Randle stays, i hope they can trade Obi so he can finally have the right minutes to grow as a player. Bring in Rokas to back up Jalen.
Starters
KP, Randle, RJ, Grimes, Jalen
Bench
iHart, Obi or Roby, jHart, DiVincenzo, Rokas
Jimbo5 wrote:It seems like if there is a major trade in the offseason to bring a superstar, its more likely that the knicks FO trades RJ rather than Randle. They value his toughness and durability very much. Im guessing the knick will have a major trade for an impact player and not a superstar.I hope they can use their mid level exemption to sign DiVincenzo then trade for a stretch 5 like KP with a package of Mitch, IQ and Fournier plus a protected player 1st(give back washington's pick)
If Randle stays, i hope they can trade Obi so he can finally have the right minutes to grow as a player. Bring in Rokas to back up Jalen.
Starters
KP, Randle, RJ, Grimes, Jalen
Bench
iHart, Obi or Roby, jHart, DiVincenzo, Rokas
With KP's history with the Knicks on top of his injury history, there is just no way unless you get him at a deep discount.
I don't really follow the Wizards but KP Beal and Kuz were good enough for... (checks notes)... a bottom 10'ish team 2 years in a row. KP missed games and was only on team for half season 2 years ago but still, he ain't a top 3 guy on a deep playoff team unless things go ultra well with him and that's iffy.
LivingLegend wrote:I have no axe to grind with KP in terms of how he left NY - doesn’t seem to matter at this point, he was young, mgmt sucked and he’s subsequently stated he may have made a mistake in some of what he said post leaving. All reasonable to me.From a playing standpoint he moved much better last year vs being a statue in Dallas. I thought the Wiz offense really catered to his skill set last year with a bunch of high pick/pops, some rolls but KP did a bunch of ball movement and he shot well from distance. He just moved better.
I think he’d play great off Brunson and even RJ —- Randle not so much.
I think he’s a center but he does require a long physical defensive presence next to him —— doesn’t work with Mitch imo.
Injuries are the big concern along with availability and maybe general lack of physicality.
Interesting take. So, if Randle ended up getting moved in a transaction for a longer defensive PF - a JJJ type, you would say KP would fit with the rest of the roster. I think there is truth to that. I don't see KP as a box out center and you would have to get some of that elsewhere in the frontcourt.
martin wrote:Jimbo5 wrote:
With KP's history with the Knicks on top of his injury history, there is just no way unless you get him at a deep discount.
I don't really follow the Wizards but KP Beal and Kuz were good enough for... (checks notes)... a bottom 10'ish team 2 years in a row. KP missed games and was only on team for half season 2 years ago but still, he ain't a top 3 guy on a deep playoff team unless things go ultra well with him and that's iffy.
With that starting line up, the knicks top 3 will still be jalen, Randle and RJ. KP will be a floor spacer who can occasionally score and not even in the top 3 scoring option.
EwingsGlass wrote:LivingLegend wrote:I have no axe to grind with KP in terms of how he left NY - doesn’t seem to matter at this point, he was young, mgmt sucked and he’s subsequently stated he may have made a mistake in some of what he said post leaving. All reasonable to me.From a playing standpoint he moved much better last year vs being a statue in Dallas. I thought the Wiz offense really catered to his skill set last year with a bunch of high pick/pops, some rolls but KP did a bunch of ball movement and he shot well from distance. He just moved better.
I think he’d play great off Brunson and even RJ —- Randle not so much.
I think he’s a center but he does require a long physical defensive presence next to him —— doesn’t work with Mitch imo.
Injuries are the big concern along with availability and maybe general lack of physicality.
Interesting take. So, if Randle ended up getting moved in a transaction for a longer defensive PF - a JJJ type, you would say KP would fit with the rest of the roster. I think there is truth to that. I don't see KP as a box out center and you would have to get some of that elsewhere in the frontcourt.
The Wizards got hot when they inserted Gafford into the line-up with KP with Gafford providing much of the dirty-work / effort plays and allowing KP to roam the floor, protect rim.
That is one of the issues with just KP --- you gain length/rim-protection but you lose physicality and toughness. For all of Randle's faults he provides us with a physical/tough presence especially offensively. Issue is he really doesn't do diddly defensively and can't be counted on to protect the rim.
Jimbo5 wrote:martin wrote:Jimbo5 wrote:
With KP's history with the Knicks on top of his injury history, there is just no way unless you get him at a deep discount.
I don't really follow the Wizards but KP Beal and Kuz were good enough for... (checks notes)... a bottom 10'ish team 2 years in a row. KP missed games and was only on team for half season 2 years ago but still, he ain't a top 3 guy on a deep playoff team unless things go ultra well with him and that's iffy.
With that starting line up, the knicks top 3 will still be jalen, Randle and RJ. KP will be a floor spacer who can occasionally score and not even in the top 3 scoring option.
Yeah I'm an idiot and messed that up. It's like noon and I still need more coffee
let's just say no to KP. Put aside the history, he is a real liability on defense especially if there are any switches. There's only so much energy and time for this sort of thing. FO should be focusing on changes without so, so, so much downside risk.
Chandler wrote:
let's just say no to KP. Put aside the history, he is a real liability on defense especially if there are any switches. There's only so much energy and time for this sort of thing. FO should be focusing on changes without so, so, so much downside risk.
Dolan and Leon Rose will not go backwards or take on any unnecessary risks, based on Leon's moves / trades so far. So the Wiz would have to almost give us KP, or Leon will probably pass. But you never know.
I too don't have any issues with KP when he left. But will Leon take on his flaws and risks right now, after a promising season? This feels like a lateral move. Plus look at Brunson and KP in dallas. If they couldn't make it work in dallas and they had a borderline superstar on their team. What makes anybody think KP would work in NY?
Beal would be a good fit at the two:
JB
BB
Mitch
Randle
RJ
Then you look at the numbers on his contract. Then I hit delete. Paying 57mil for a 34 year old who is not a top 5 player is kind of nauseating.
I know Miami and their legion of undrafted is all the rage (the anti starphuch!) but Beal's deal is crazy to digest given the process of Leon were we have mostly good contracts.
EF's is not great but not a franchise killer either.
Nalod wrote:
Beal would be a good fit at the two:JB
BB
Mitch
Randle
RJ
Then you look at the numbers on his contract. Then I hit delete. Paying 57mil for a 34 year old who is not a top 5 player is kind of nauseating.
I know Miami and their legion of undrafted is all the rage (the anti starphuch!) but Beal's deal is crazy to digest given the process of Leon were we have mostly good contracts.
EF's is not great but not a franchise killer either.
I also question Beal's fit with Brunson. Brunson has proven he can play off ball. But I remember there being a bit of chafing with Beal and Wall in the same backcourt. Also, Beal's three point shooting has been erratic the past few years. Is that due to his increased offensive load
or the lingering effects of his shoulder injury from injuries? He did bounce back, kind of, this season.
I want the knicks to be the place where RJ becomes an all-star, if trading Randle is close to impossible this offseason, i want the trio of Jalen, RJ and Randle for the start of ghe season and any major changes should just involve the spacing issues(3pt shooters and a stretch 5). Im willing to let go of RJ if the return includes Ingram, OG, Bridges.
Can the FO find another Bronson type of move? Would you take a gamble on Jonathan Isaac if the price is low?
Jimbo5 wrote:I want the knicks to be the place where RJ becomes an all-star, if trading Randle is close to impossible this offseason, i want the trio of Jalen, RJ and Randle for the start of ghe season and any major changes should just involve the spacing issues(3pt shooters and a stretch 5). Im willing to let go of RJ if the return includes Ingram, OG, Bridges.Can the FO find another Bronson type of move? Would you take a gamble on Jonathan Isaac if the price is low?
Isaac is in the same spot as Ben Simmons. You'd assume his current team would be happy to give him away just to clear that contract off their books. I just don't see the Knicks being in a position where it makes sense for them to take such a risky move. The last thing the Knicks need is a potentially untradeable big contract clogging up their cap.
gradyandrew wrote:Jimbo5 wrote:I want the knicks to be the place where RJ becomes an all-star, if trading Randle is close to impossible this offseason, i want the trio of Jalen, RJ and Randle for the start of ghe season and any major changes should just involve the spacing issues(3pt shooters and a stretch 5). Im willing to let go of RJ if the return includes Ingram, OG, Bridges.Can the FO find another Bronson type of move? Would you take a gamble on Jonathan Isaac if the price is low?
Isaac is in the same spot as Ben Simmons. You'd assume his current team would be happy to give him away just to clear that contract off their books. I just don't see the Knicks being in a position where it makes sense for them to take such a risky move. The last thing the Knicks need is a potentially untradeable big contract clogging up their cap.
Issac’s contract is 17mm and partially guaranteed if still on roster by Jan 1st. Low risk. Not sure what he wants but playing behind Bancharo won’t help him start at age 26. Jules is all nBA allstar and would be blocking his minutes….But:
He is 6-11. Maybe time to learn to play the 5 more?
Can back up both the 4 and 5?
And is talented as fuck.
But…..over 6 NBA seasons he has played in only 147 games. Missed two entire seasons, played only 11 games this past one.
This is the kind of guy that either goes the way of Olidipo or reconstitutes and earns a new big contract after some durability. He could find a path back to a career on a contending team playing 15-20 minutes.
I haver read he is a big Jesus guy and for all we know he walks away from the pain and non contributory issues that come with being a pro athlete whose body won’t let him play, but……he can preach and find great purpose in religion.
That or signs with the Devil in Miami and sells his soul.
Isaac has the same situation as Obi has. Can he play the SF? Can playing the 3 lessen the strain on his body not being counted on to guard stonger PFs? I hope he can catch a break ang get several consecutive healthy seasons under his belt.
