Off Topic · Biden out (page 19)
gradyandrew wrote:Philc1 wrote:
When Putin invaded a sovereign country. But lemme guess you’re googling tulsi gabbard talking pointsAccording to the Council on Foreign Relations there were 14,000 casualties in Donbass and Luhansk between 2014 and 2022.
Are you referring to when Putin took Crimea a territory from a sovereign country?
HofstraBBall wrote:By the way, Trumps foreign policy has been just like his own personal view on life.
Which is fuck everyone else only I matter.
It’s actually going to be even worse if he gets elected again. He has already promised Sheldon Adelson’s widow he will annex the West Bank and in exchange she gave him $100 million. What’s happening in Gaza will next happen in the West Bank which has 3 million people. This is after his son-in-law received 2 separate billion dollar bribes from the Saudis in exchange for a promise to go to war against Iran. Trump and his supporters also want to start a war in Mexico against the cartels. What a peace activist!
gradyandrew wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:gradyandrew wrote:Philc1 wrote:
When Putin invaded a sovereign country. But lemme guess you’re googling tulsi gabbard talking pointsAccording to the Council on Foreign Relations there were 14,000 casualties in Donbass and Luhansk between 2014 and 2022.
https://www.international.gc.ca/world-mo...
Not sure if Grady is allowed to open these sites?
Good stuff. Kind of begs the question of why Sweden and Finland were so quickly admitted to NATO while Ukraine has had to wait 20 years. Is it a stretch of the imagination to understand why Russia would feel nervous about NATO on it's doorstep, especially considering how the threat that NATO was established to counter is 30+ years in the past?
I haven't heard a cogent argument as to why it's in American interest to fund Ukraine as a client state. Trump is running for president of America, not the world.
Sweden and Finland were admitted into NATO after Ukraine was invaded. NATO has always been hesitant to admit countries that have a border with Russia that Russia clearly wants to invade and has invaded since the fall of the Soviet Union like Georgia for example.
gradyandrew wrote:Anyway, I'm still undecided as a voter. In the last thread on this topic, someone pointed out that far worse than Jan 6 was the premeditated and unsubstantiated bullshit Trump was spouting between Election Day and the Capitol Riot. I'm just not sure if a Trump dictatorship or nuclear war with Russia is a greater existential threat. I think reasonable people should think on that.
Your fears are your fears and that's essentially a big part of how Trump has built his cult....fears and grievances.
Getting back to facts, you referenced Trump's first term as an example of foreign policy.... during Trump's term as POTUS he ordered the largest non-nuclear bomb ever deployed (MOAB) in 2017. The 2nd half of his term was occupied by a global pandemic where not much international conflict happened as countries were pre-occupied with keeping their own citizens alive for obvious reasons. Trump also deployed tariffs for Chinese goods, and wants to increase those up to 20% in his 2nd term.
Regarding potential Nuclear war, during Trump's first term he reneged on the Iran nuclear deal resulting in Iran now having a built up arsenal. He failed to put any restraints on North Korea who now also has a more threatening nuclear arsenal. He ended the Open Skies treaty which was implemented in 1992 for arms control and also did not extend the New Start agreement with Russia a treaty regulating Nuclear proliferation. He also continually threatened to back out of NATO, which as a treaty partly ensures countries such as South Korea and Japan do not build their own nuclear arsenals. Trump was also known to be cavalier about using nuclear weapons during his term. Escalations in tweeting at Kim Jong Un "fire and fury" rhetoric.
The main point here is that to anyone paying attention to facts and actions..... the world would not appear to be any safer from Nuclear destruction with Trump as President vs. Harris. Perhaps you can read up on this if allowed to sites such as the linked..... https://www.armscontrol.org/issue-briefs...
....or perhaps you are just looking for whatever reason to support Trump that you can come up with?
foosballnick wrote:gradyandrew wrote:Anyway, I'm still undecided as a voter. In the last thread on this topic, someone pointed out that far worse than Jan 6 was the premeditated and unsubstantiated bullshit Trump was spouting between Election Day and the Capitol Riot. I'm just not sure if a Trump dictatorship or nuclear war with Russia is a greater existential threat. I think reasonable people should think on that.Your fears are your fears and that's essentially a big part of how Trump has built his cult....fears and grievances.
Getting back to facts, you referenced Trump's first term as an example of foreign policy.... during Trump's term as POTUS he ordered the largest non-nuclear bomb ever deployed (MOAB) in 2017. The 2nd half of his term was occupied by a global pandemic where not much international conflict happened as countries were pre-occupied with keeping their own citizens alive for obvious reasons. Trump also deployed tariffs for Chinese goods, and wants to increase those up to 20% in his 2nd term.
Regarding potential Nuclear war, during Trump's first term he reneged on the Iran nuclear deal resulting in Iran now having a built up arsenal. He failed to put any restraints on North Korea who now also has a more threatening nuclear arsenal. He ended the Open Skies treaty which was implemented in 1992 for arms control and also did not extend the New Start agreement with Russia a treaty regulating Nuclear proliferation. He also continually threatened to back out of NATO, which as a treaty partly ensures countries such as South Korea and Japan do not build their own nuclear arsenals. Trump was also known to be cavalier about using nuclear weapons during his term. Escalations in tweeting at Kim Jong Un "fire and fury" rhetoric.
The main point here is that to anyone paying attention to facts and actions..... the world would not appear to be any safer from Nuclear destruction with Trump as President vs. Harris. Perhaps you can read up on this if allowed to sites such as the linked..... https://www.armscontrol.org/issue-briefs...
....or perhaps you are just looking for whatever reason to support Trump that you can come up with?
You forgot to mention that Trump fucking stole American classified documents. There is only one reason you steal American classified documents and it is not in the best interests of America.
Classified documents were stolen by the President of the United States and there is a debate on that person's foreign policy?
There should be no debate here. If anyone thinks otherwise, please identify yourself and your reasons.
HofstraBBall wrote:
Not sure if there is a language barrier or if you are not able to fully open up certain links.Article posted was how thousands marched for democracy. Which is a common occurrence in several communist countries despite efforts by those governments to suppress them. Missed how marching in front of the US consulate is a “meeting”?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gaE4cmBP6m...
Apologies. Here's the correct link regarding US diplomat meeting with the protesters and state department spokesperson confirming. You have to wonder what the reaction in America would be if Russia met with a January 6 militia man.
gradyandrew wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:
Not sure if there is a language barrier or if you are not able to fully open up certain links.Article posted was how thousands marched for democracy. Which is a common occurrence in several communist countries despite efforts by those governments to suppress them. Missed how marching in front of the US consulate is a “meeting”?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gaE4cmBP6m...
Apologies. Here's the correct link regarding US diplomat meeting with the protesters and state department spokesperson confirming. You have to wonder what the reaction in America would be if Russia met with a January 6 militia man.
Best I can tell is that you're thinking of voting for Trump because some state department person met with protesters from Hong Kong, a long standing democracy that was converted to an autocracy (and dissenting news and media outlets in HK were shut down by the Chinese government)? This because you've conveniently ignored responses in this thread regarding Trump's experiences with foreign policy and the Nuclear arsenal and you have indicated that domestic policy is not in control for the POTUS ..... one can only assume this right here is your reason you want Trump.
Now my turn.....what would Putin do if the US poured millions into a Russian media outlet to spread anti-Putin sentiment? My best guess is that anyone associated would either suspiciously die after being poisoned or they would be sent to some prison in Siberia for life.
foosballnick wrote:gradyandrew wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:
Not sure if there is a language barrier or if you are not able to fully open up certain links.Article posted was how thousands marched for democracy. Which is a common occurrence in several communist countries despite efforts by those governments to suppress them. Missed how marching in front of the US consulate is a “meeting”?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gaE4cmBP6m...
Apologies. Here's the correct link regarding US diplomat meeting with the protesters and state department spokesperson confirming. You have to wonder what the reaction in America would be if Russia met with a January 6 militia man.
Best I can tell is that you're thinking of voting for Trump because some state department person met with protesters from Hong Kong, a long standing democracy that was converted to an autocracy (and dissenting news and media outlets in HK were shut down by the Chinese government)? This because you've conveniently ignored responses in this thread regarding Trump's experiences with foreign policy and the Nuclear arsenal and you have indicated that domestic policy is not in control for the POTUS ..... one can only assume this right here is your reason you want Trump.
Now my turn.....what would Putin do if the US poured millions into a Russian media outlet to spread anti-Putin sentiment? My best guess is that anyone associated would either suspiciously die after being poisoned or they would be sent to some prison in Siberia for life.
I'm doing my best to respond and trying hard not to get caught up with side issues. For example, HK only instituted some limited democracy just before the 1997 handover. As Wikipedia says "Historically, Hong Kong was never an electoral democracy." But tbh, I 100% don't think this is relevant. Why shouldn't US interference in domestic politics begin with an autocracy that we have close ties with, such as Saudi Arabia? To me the issue is the US shouldn't involve itself in the internal politics of other countries besides advocating for American citizens and companies.
As far as a nuclear arsenal goes, I feel this isn't as important as supporting proxy war that is now being fought on Russian territory. I think America is safer with a strong nuclear deterrent and limited conventional forces. A large standing army gives president's too
many options to fight wars overseas without a formal declaration of war.
Philc1 wrote:gradyandrew wrote:Philc1 wrote:
When Putin invaded a sovereign country. But lemme guess you’re googling tulsi gabbard talking pointsAccording to the Council on Foreign Relations there were 14,000 casualties in Donbass and Luhansk between 2014 and 2022.
Are you referring to when Putin took Crimea a territory from a sovereign country?
Sebastopol has been the home of Russia 's Black Sea fleet since 1853. At the time of the invasion Russia had a lease on the port until 2042. I think it was extremely naive to think that Russia wouldn't act aggressively to protect the port. If Russia was threatened with losing the port, I'm sure a nuclear response would be on the table since its a vital interest for them. What's the advantage to the US for threatening it?
gradyandrew wrote:foosballnick wrote:gradyandrew wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:
Not sure if there is a language barrier or if you are not able to fully open up certain links.Article posted was how thousands marched for democracy. Which is a common occurrence in several communist countries despite efforts by those governments to suppress them. Missed how marching in front of the US consulate is a “meeting”?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gaE4cmBP6m...
Apologies. Here's the correct link regarding US diplomat meeting with the protesters and state department spokesperson confirming. You have to wonder what the reaction in America would be if Russia met with a January 6 militia man.
Best I can tell is that you're thinking of voting for Trump because some state department person met with protesters from Hong Kong, a long standing democracy that was converted to an autocracy (and dissenting news and media outlets in HK were shut down by the Chinese government)? This because you've conveniently ignored responses in this thread regarding Trump's experiences with foreign policy and the Nuclear arsenal and you have indicated that domestic policy is not in control for the POTUS ..... one can only assume this right here is your reason you want Trump.
Now my turn.....what would Putin do if the US poured millions into a Russian media outlet to spread anti-Putin sentiment? My best guess is that anyone associated would either suspiciously die after being poisoned or they would be sent to some prison in Siberia for life.
I'm doing my best to respond and trying hard not to get caught up with side issues. For example, HK only instituted some limited democracy just before the 1997 handover. As Wikipedia says "Historically, Hong Kong was never an electoral democracy." But tbh, I 100% don't think this is relevant. Why shouldn't US interference in domestic politics begin with an autocracy that we have close ties with, such as Saudi Arabia? To me the issue is the US shouldn't involve itself in the internal politics of other countries besides advocating for American citizens and companies.
As far as a nuclear arsenal goes, I feel this isn't as important as supporting proxy war that is now being fought on Russian territory. I think America is safer with a strong nuclear deterrent and limited conventional forces. A large standing army gives president's too
many options to fight wars overseas without a formal declaration of war.
I think that you are potentially taking a narrow view of the US regarding international relations. There's a nuance, and every country/issue has different circumstances. Start with the premise that the US is at it's core a highly consumer driven society/economy with significant reliance on the global market for goods and services. While you seem to be preaching for isolationism, in actuality, every move that is made internationally is to either secure long term US Security and Trade interests.
To the points you are made......
- The middle east has oil but is unstable politically across a confluence of countries, religions/sects and socio-economic differences. This is why it is necessary to form stable relationships- as distasteful as it may be - with monarchies such as the Saudi's to help drive stability and exert proxy control across the region.
- Just a guess - but the US meddling in Hong Kong is likely meant to rattle chains about Taiwan As I previously mentioned - the US has significant trade partnerships with Taiwan in Semi-conductors & chips.
I'll refer you to Condi Rice regarding the perils of Isolationism https://www.foreignaffairs.com/united-st...
Also - not sure what factors would lead you to believe that there would be a greater chance at nuclear conflict with Harris vs. Trump beyond what I had previously shared. It was not only about controlling the nuclear arsenal. Further, Trump is 78 years old and showing signs of derangement and thirst for vengence. Further - if elected, he will likely surround himself with "yes" men as he has shown a significant history of not liking nor seek any dissenting opinions. Not sure how you would equate that to a model of being able to handle international crisis in a sane way.
Here's a snapshot of Harris foreign policy if you want to read up on it.....https://foreignpolicy.com/2024/07/26/kam...
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For me, Aaron Rupert is in line with Ian Bagley of the Knicks beat and tries to stay even keeled throughout without tipping his cap to any winds. This is his reaction today.
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gradyandrew wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:
Not sure if there is a language barrier or if you are not able to fully open up certain links.Article posted was how thousands marched for democracy. Which is a common occurrence in several communist countries despite efforts by those governments to suppress them. Missed how marching in front of the US consulate is a “meeting”?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gaE4cmBP6m...
Apologies. Here's the correct link regarding US diplomat meeting with the protesters and state department spokesperson confirming. You have to wonder what the reaction in America would be if Russia met with a January 6 militia man.
You have lost all credibility.
Posting a video distributed by the CGTN
CGTN is the Central Propaganda Department of the Chinese Communist Party
Think you are either a plant or extremely naive. Vote for the former.
foosballnick wrote:gradyandrew wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:
Not sure if there is a language barrier or if you are not able to fully open up certain links.Article posted was how thousands marched for democracy. Which is a common occurrence in several communist countries despite efforts by those governments to suppress them. Missed how marching in front of the US consulate is a “meeting”?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gaE4cmBP6m...
Apologies. Here's the correct link regarding US diplomat meeting with the protesters and state department spokesperson confirming. You have to wonder what the reaction in America would be if Russia met with a January 6 militia man.
Best I can tell is that you're thinking of voting for Trump because some state department person met with protesters from Hong Kong, a long standing democracy that was converted to an autocracy (and dissenting news and media outlets in HK were shut down by the Chinese government)? This because you've conveniently ignored responses in this thread regarding Trump's experiences with foreign policy and the Nuclear arsenal and you have indicated that domestic policy is not in control for the POTUS ..... one can only assume this right here is your reason you want Trump.
Now my turn.....what would Putin do if the US poured millions into a Russian media outlet to spread anti-Putin sentiment? My best guess is that anyone associated would either suspiciously die after being poisoned or they would be sent to some prison in Siberia for life.
He is not voting in our election. He is just trying to push propaganda.
This is Wharton level stuff?
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Globalization will continue in some form. But the sense that it is a positive force has lost steam. Consider the way countries acted in response to 9/11 versus how they acted in response to the pandemic. After 9/11, the world united in tackling terrorism, a problem that almost every country was experiencing in some form. Within a few weeks of the attack, the UN Security Council unanimously passed a resolution allowing the tracking of terrorist financing across borders. Countries quickly harmonized their airport security standards. The United States soon joined with other countries to create the Proliferation Security Initiative, a forum for sharing information on suspicious cargo that would grow to include over 100 member states. Fast-forward to 2020, and the world saw the revenge of the sovereign state. International institutions were compromised, the chief example being the World Health Organization, which had grown too close to China. Travel restrictions, bans on the export of protective gear, and claims on vaccines complicated the road to recovery.
It seems as if the crucial part 2 of "But then GW and I decided to invade Iraq and whatever international good will towards America that had been built up over 50+ years of post wwii leadership was squandered." A 5000 word essay on international affairs and she didn't mention once the effects of the Iraq war seems disenguous to the extreme.